Bolivarian Revolution (The New Sub-Subforum of Venezuela)

Just thought it warrants a thread. It's massive, it's happening, it's rolling on. It's now, and although we can't be sure of it's outcomes, there's certainly much positive in it. Last notes from a Russian free-traveller G. Koubatian (he was in Bolivia just a few days ago and going to Cuba now) tell there's so much optimism in people towards a socialist fututre there, a strong desire to build socialism and fight American imperialism...

Venezuela, Bolivia, joined with Cuba - and possible others to join this movement.

Can we perhaps document the key events in the history of the Bolivarian Revolution in this thread and keep it an ongoing "newsforge"?

Stanislav.

That might be a good idea. Throughout the current events, red square, and Cuba subfora, there are several random threads about Venezuela and Bolivia, mostly Venezuela. It would be nice to consolidate those, whoever is willing to do so.

A Socialist World Map project (only works for N&S America as of now). Pretty descriptive, even if it doesn't really distinguish between socialist-proclaimed leadership and actual socialist society building measures being done in the country.

There's no way some of those countries are even close to socialism.

Guyana:

"A political deradicalization occurred as the PPP, PNC, and WPA evolved into social democratic organizations as opposed to Marxist ones. President Jagan reassured the United States with his newfound commitment to free-market economics, although the PPP remained close to the trade unions." (from Wikipedia)

Panama:

Should be orange for social-democrat.

On Bachelet in Chile:

"A moderate Socialist, she campaigned on a platform of continuing Chile's free market policies, while increasing social benefits to help reduce the country's gap between rich and poor, one of the largest in the world." (again Wikipedophilia)

Brazil:

"After winning the presidency, Lula changed many of his original ideals. His party moved progressively to a modern social democratic political position. Instead of deep social changes (as proposed in the past) his government chose a reformist line, passing new retirement, tributary, labor, and judicial laws, and discussing a university reform. Some members of the Worker's Party disagreed with these changes in focus."

Guyana and Chile have social democratic leaders but Chile is commits itself to maintaining both neoliberalism and social democracy, i.e. they are third-wayists. Brazil is more neoliberal than social democratic as well. Venezuela and Bolivia are not socialist, i.e. the content of the political system remains the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie. The significant aspect of Venezuela is that the Bolivarian Revolution is in the process of establishing workers’ councils and setting up a system of dual power.

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Venezuela and Bolivia are not socialist, i.e. the content of the political system remains the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie.

Really? But as I understood, there's massive nationalization going on in both Venezuela and Bolivia.

Nationalization does not necessarily mean socialization of the means of production. During the 1930s, the United States government nationalized quite a bit of property but it did not mean workers’ power.

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Nationalization does not necessarily mean socialization of the means of production.

Certainly, if it simply means concentrating means of production in the hands of the bourgeoise. But from what I heard, the leadership of both countries proclaims moving to socialism.

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the United States government nationalized quite a bit of property but it did not mean workers’ power

Actually, wasn't it the time when Roosevelt was criticized for his "Soviet" policies?

Canada is slowly slipping into a reactionary state as well. Mr Harper said our media is "too Liberal friendly."

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Certainly, if it simply means concentrating means of production in the hands of the bourgeoise. But from what I heard, the leadership of both countries proclaims moving to socialism.

Word and form do not neccesitate identical content. The PRC calls itself 'socialist', workers have political power in some factories, but the PRC is not socialist.

I decided to post here for a few reasons.

1-like S_B stated:

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Just thought it warrants a thread. It's massive, it's happening, it's rolling on. It's now, and although we can't be sure of it's outcomes, there's certainly much positive in it. Last notes from a Russian free-traveller G. Koubatian (he was in Bolivia just a few days ago and going to Cuba now) tell there's so much optimism in people towards a socialist fututre there, a strong desire to build socialism and fight American imperialism...

It is happening now. this is something that can be studied and learned from.

we can talk Venezuela's successes and faults and learn from them.

http://www.plenglish.com/article.asp?ID=%7BF11B6C35-1DE1-42C6-A20C-69DA07001F8D%7D)&language=EN

This story is addressing the up coming elections in venezuela. they are to be held on December 3. This is an important thing to the World socialist movement.


http://www.tehrantimes.com/Description.asp?Da=9/3/2006&Cat=4&Num=13

This link is about chavez voting to remove the term limitation in venezuela therefor allowing him to run indefinitely

Venezuela is on the way to Socialism, the only thing stopping it would be the bourgeoisie who still control a lot in Venezuela. The people will eventually take control, but that will take time. Bolivia is on the same process, but has just started so it'll be hard to tell what is in store for them.


The best way to see how proletariat is gaining power in Venezuela is how Chavez has built many communal councils. The people will decide how they wish to structure their communities and he will provide them the necessary cash to build what they need. Thus, the bourgeoisie will slowly lose power as the people's level of consciousness grows with each decision they make. Hopefully, Bolivia will eventually choose to continue down this path...

http://venezuelanalysis.com/articles.php?artno=1844

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The best way to see how proletriat is gaining power in Venezuela is how Chaves has built many communal councils.

I think that you hit on the most important part and the most over looked part...

the most important issue is putting power into the hand of the workers. and that is the idea of the councils.

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Brazil: "After winning the presidency, Lula changed many of his original ideals. His party moved progressively to a modern social democratic political position. Instead of deep social changes (as proposed in the past) his government chose a reformist line, passing new retirement, tributary, labour, and judicial laws, and discussing a university reform. Some members of the Worker's Party disagreed with these changes in focus."

But it could be that Lula got a minority government..

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But it could be that Lula got a minority government..

What?

According to your unsourced quote, Lula probably became more reactionary/revisonist so he didn't piss off the conservatives.

http://www.economist.com/world/displays ... id=8001234

http://www.economist.com/world/displays ... id=8001712

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Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva failed to win a majority of the votes in Brazil's presidential election, forcing a run-off on October 29th. His opponent will be Geraldo Alckmin, a former governor of São Paulo. See article

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UNTIL the final days of the campaign, Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva appeared to be heading for certain re-election as Brazil's president in the first round of voting on October 1st. Then he made Brazilians angry. Last month members of his Workers' Party (PT) were caught with 1.75m reais ($800,000) in cash—the price of a dossier supposedly implicating José Serra, candidate of the centre-left Party of Brazilian Social Democracy (PSDB) for the governorship of São Paulo, in a long-running corruption scandal. Rather than apologise or explain, Lula ducked the final televised debate with his rivals. The day before the vote, photos of the piled-up cash appeared in the media. Voters hit back. Lula's first-place finish, with 48.6% of the poll, is really a defeat. He now faces an unexpected second round against Geraldo Alckmin, a former PSDB governor of São Paulo, who came just seven points behind and way ahead in morale and momentum.

Sounds like echo of the Canadian liberal party!!

it probably is very similar in ideals..

Hey.

This is my first post on the Forum.

A really really great forum by the way.

My name is Felipe and Im studying History here on Santiago de Chile.

The whole thing about the new soscialism I personally think thats something very very vague... We still dont know what really wants chavez, by the way hes spending about 35.000 millions of dollars on weaponry.

We all Hope here to the Chavez issue goes on until Socialism with force and soul.

But, the Brazil affair is diferent.

Thats because USA is trying to make a counter-part to the venezuela-cuba-bolivia party... With Brazil, Peru, Argentina.

Something like.

Anyways, our case here on Chili is false...

Bachelet is no soccialism, bachelet is not even third way... Bachelet is part of "the concertation" thats a party that has been holding the power since the peacefully pass of power by Pinocher.

Bachelet would have great intentions, but please search in the news for the strikes of Health, the strikes of the Teachers, the strikes of the secondary Students for reivindication.

And the governement censures it, changes the information, lies to the leaders.

And the mass-media lies, and lies, and lies.

Its not as good the thing here... Just for the burgoise.

And thats how it goes.

Hi Felipe,
I'm from Argentina and I feel the same way about Bachelet. If Lula was a kind of dissapointment because he had to moderate the reforms he planned, Michele didn't even try to make them. I've been several times to Santiago de Chile, my father lives there, and after all those years the Concertacion has been in power... it's sad to see a government so clearly aligned with the grand capital and not with the workers.

By the way, Venezuela's buying weapons doesn't bother me as much as Chile's modernization of its army. Venezuela has only bought rifles and a few planes. Chile has bought ships, planes and I heard rumors about tanks. But the USA didn't even say a word....