Soviet-Empire.com U.S.S.R. and communism historical discussion.
[ Login ] [ Active ]

Hong Kong - Tiananmen all over again?

POST REPLY
Log-in to remove advertisement.
Post 12 Sep 2019, 19:18
I was hoping to get some insight on the matter, especially from any comrades living in China. So these pro-western uprisings continue to pop up with the full backing of western diplomats on the ground, although the same can't seem to be said the other way round as I have yet to have seen Russian or Chinese officials liaising with say the yellow vest protesters. The Chinese government seems to have been quite restrained thus far, but all of this naturally brings back memories of Tiananmen Square.

The reason I bring up the comparison is the timing. Tiananmen took place when a wave of revolutions swept across the eastern bloc countries, naturally spreading throughout the rest of the socialist world with the support of the west. Now we're sort of seeing the same thing after all the western sponsored colour revolutions that have been taking place recently. This is why I tend to have doubts about the legitimacy of the demands of these protesters, which at first glance don't seem to merit such a reaction.

Opinions comrades? What's the dealio?
Post 13 Sep 2019, 01:55
Tiananmen square protests were fueled by specifically Chinese grievances after the Deng Xiaoping, namely stripping away of social benefits from state owned enterprises employees (China had a similar system to the USSR, where SOEs provided housing, medical care, etc, but unlike the USSR had no universal guarantees from municipal governments). The big motivation for students was that they saw that after graduation they would not have this kind of employment, meanwhile people connected to the Party on regional and national levels were doing very well, as corruption grew and the government turned a blind eye to Party officials becoming businessmen. So a combination of corruption, growing inequality and lack of good jobs with social guarantees made people see injustice and protest it.

Hong Kong is very different as it was a British colony and only got "democracy" as part of its transition to becoming part of China. Today it is wealthier than any other part of China, but the economy has reached a standstill and there is no affordable housing due to speculation and status as a financial center, so people can't migrate to China as they would be worse off and can't stay because their lives suck and will not improve. Obviously they blame China for this, while China needs Hong Kong as that's where they stash much of their money or funnel it through to investments abroad, especially ill gotten gains from corruption.

I don't think Western interference played much of a role in either, except as propaganda and perhaps advisors on tactics for the latter. Without the social basis the Hong Kong protests are about nothing, and as they lost the social content and became explicitly shit like putting the colonial flag up, they also stopped being like 1/3 of the city marching and just became violence, racism against mainland Chinese, etc, which we have gotten used to seeing from the nativists in past protests. There are also legitimate social grievances though, as life there seems pretty awful even if you are middle class and not rich.
Post 03 Oct 2019, 04:00
Here is a good article from 24 September 2019: The Hong Kong protests and imperialism: What the corporate media isn’t saying.

Besides that it is important to note the 'one country, two systems' principle that exists within China. I'd find it hard to believe that these protests would expand into the mainland.
Post 27 Nov 2019, 22:21
Did you guys see the video of the protesters setting a pro-Chinese man alight? What a bunch of fuсking savages. It will be interesting to see how things unfold now that pan-democratic candidates have won in the elections.
Post 09 Jan 2020, 16:33
Hopefully this topic is not too distant for my post to be considered necro...

The Hong Kong protests are nothing more than the same color revolution formula that the NED and CIA apply to places they cannot take down militarily or through the ballot box, such as Venezuela. The formula worked well in Bolivia and Ukraine, in recent times. Of course for a place like Hong Kong, there is no overthrowing the system, but the unrest is enough to keep China occupied and to score a propaganda victory against China.

Two things to note about these events
1. The western press in Hong Kong make it a point not to report the hooliganism carried out by the nihilistic, US flag waving masked thugs, but will swarm around any notion of a possibly brutal police response.
2. It is noteworthy how much coverage Hong Kong protests get, while the year-long Yellow Vest protests in France barely get any coveragez at least in the US. Sad but very predictable.

It seems like waiting it out is China's best option, although it must be hell for regular Hong Kong citizens.
Post 22 Jan 2020, 03:50
Not all Communists in the region are supportive of the actions taken by Beijing to squench the protesters . The Japanese Communist Party has come out with this statement . http://www.jcp.or.jp/english/jcpcc/blog/2019/11/20191114-immediate-cessation-of-suppression-in-hong-kong.html And , as one might expect , the Trotskyists of Hong Kong have condemned the PRC in this regard . https://chinaworker.info/en/2019/09/27/21290/ , https://chinaworker.info/en/2019/11/26/22004/ So make of that what you will .
Post 22 Jan 2020, 19:37
One would hope the message from JCP is not necessarily in opposition, but friendly warning of restraint. Of course, compared to most police forces facing violent protests, the Hong Kong police appears to be restrained in their response.

As for the Trotskyists in Hong Kong, their rhetoric mirrors that of the uncritical soundbites that come from western media, when talking about this being a democracy movement, or of the "concentration camps" of Xinjiang. It does the group a disservice to mimic shoddy western interpretations of the situation.
Post 27 Jan 2020, 03:11
Marshal Konev wrote:
One would hope the message from JCP is not necessarily in opposition, but friendly warning of restraint. Of course, compared to most police forces facing violent protests, the Hong Kong police appears to be restrained in their response.

As for the Trotskyists in Hong Kong, their rhetoric mirrors that of the uncritical soundbites that come from western media, when talking about this being a democracy movement, or of the "concentration camps" of Xinjiang. It does the group a disservice to mimic shoddy western interpretations of the situation.

From this article I just found , originally printed in the South China Post , the Japanese Communist Party had really come down hard on the Communist Party of China . https://www.msn.com/en-sg/news/world/chinese-communist-partys-chauvinism-a-threat-to-peace-japanese-counterpart/ar-BBZ94fB?li=BBr8Mkj While I do not wish to rush to judgment , I do feel that the opinions of dissident comrades from the region , and especially from the territory of the People's Republic of China , and more specifically Hong Kong , should not be easily dismissed . And in addition , I have heard of there being a crack down on Marxists even , in the PRC . { https://www.npr.org/2018/11/21/669509554/in-china-the-communist-partys-latest-unlikely-target-young-marxists , https://www.businessinsider.com/china-communist-party-crack-down-on-student-communists-2018-11 , https://thediplomat.com/2018/10/no-place-for-real-marxists-in-communist-china/ , https://www.newser.com/story/142340/china-cracks-down-on-maoists.html }
Post 27 Jan 2020, 05:54
Jason24 wrote:
Not all Communists in the region are supportive of the actions taken by Beijing to squench the protesters


Not an expert on law enforcement in 1 Country 2 Systems but has Beijing done anything? I mean the vocally disagreed with the violence but the police in Hong Kong aren't from the mainland China. They're from Hong Kong under orders from Security Bureau of Hong Kong.
Post 28 Jan 2020, 20:40
Post 23 Aug 2021, 21:16
I wanna talk a little about XinJiang and the situation with the Uyghurs.

The way I see it there’s two possibilities.

The first is that the situation there is being blown way out of proportion mostly by western jerk-off scatophile propagandists who get their hard-ons crapping on everything Chinese or Russian. What’s probably actually happening is a heavy handed crackdown on separatism, which is in turn pervertedly interpreted as a genocide by the aforementioned coprophiles. In this situation I don’t see that big of a problem besides the fact that many innocent bystanders in absolute numbers will probably get caught in the cross fire. Generally speaking, I believe that separatism is something that should be discouraged and fought against for many reasons that I will gladly adumbrate upon request. Theoretically, exceptions of course do exist to my expressed belief but I could not come up with any concrete historical examples of separatism that I unquestionably support out of hand.

The second albeit highly unlikely situation is that there is a sort of cultural genocide going on whereby Uyghurs are being forcibly reeducated on their loyalties. Although there may indeed be a gross violation of human rights on this point, I just can’t bring myself to feel too sorry for these people. Were we all not forcibly educated as children to believe that our countries’ and parents’ beliefs were above all others? Why is it okay for parents and educational institutions to indoctrinate children in whatever bullshit they deem fit but not when adults are by the Communist Party of China? There are far worse things going on with other peoples suffering under the boot of imperialism for any right minded person to be making too big of a fuss of state sponsored vocational trainings and re-educational programs.

I also find it far fetched that Muslims are being persecuted in Xinjiang but no where else in China. Like I said before, it all seems like a war against separatism rather than on Muslims.

The reports coming out of western media don’t make it any better either. I saw this idiotic video by Vice on the subject on YouTube, whereby some of their most compelling evidence is the large number of surveillance cameras at train stations in Xinjiang. For fuсk’s sake I see more cameras in my apartment complex.

Bay Area 415’s most popular video was on debunking the allegations but he’s had to take his channel down due to death threats and the risk of being doxxed. What the fuсk is up with leftists being unable to express their views lately without having their heads handed to them?

Am I right comrades, or am I being your typical Chinese Communist Party boot-licking apologist?
Post 02 Sep 2021, 23:32
Yeqon wrote:
I wanna talk a little about XinJiang and the situation with the Uyghurs.

The way I see it there’s two possibilities.

The first is that the situation there is being blown way out of proportion mostly by western jerk-off scatophile propagandists who get their hard-ons crapping on everything Chinese or Russian. What’s probably actually happening is a heavy handed crackdown on separatism, which is in turn pervertedly interpreted as a genocide by the aforementioned coprophiles. In this situation I don’t see that big of a problem besides the fact that many innocent bystanders in absolute numbers will probably get caught in the cross fire. Generally speaking, I believe that separatism is something that should be discouraged and fought against for many reasons that I will gladly adumbrate upon request. Theoretically, exceptions of course do exist to my expressed belief but I could not come up with any concrete historical examples of separatism that I unquestionably support out of hand.

The second albeit highly unlikely situation is that there is a sort of cultural genocide going on whereby Uyghurs are being forcibly reeducated on their loyalties. Although there may indeed be a gross violation of human rights on this point, I just can’t bring myself to feel too sorry for these people. Were we all not forcibly educated as children to believe that our countries’ and parents’ beliefs were above all others? Why is it okay for parents and educational institutions to indoctrinate children in whatever bullshit they deem fit but not when adults are by the Communist Party of China? There are far worse things going on with other peoples suffering under the boot of imperialism for any right minded person to be making too big of a fuss of state sponsored vocational trainings and re-educational programs.

I also find it far fetched that Muslims are being persecuted in Xinjiang but no where else in China. Like I said before, it all seems like a war against separatism rather than on Muslims.

The reports coming out of western media don’t make it any better either. I saw this idiotic video by Vice on the subject on YouTube, whereby some of their most compelling evidence is the large number of surveillance cameras at train stations in Xinjiang. For fuсk’s sake I see more cameras in my apartment complex.

Bay Area 415’s most popular video was on debunking the allegations but he’s had to take his channel down due to death threats and the risk of being doxxed. What the fuсk is up with leftists being unable to express their views lately without having their heads handed to them?

Am I right comrades, or am I being your typical Chinese Communist Party boot-licking apologist?
I'm inclined to feel the same way . Based upon articles I have read , and videos I have seen , it would seem that the PRC is combatting an ETIM terrorist insurgency . https://theprint.in/theprint-essential/what-is-etim-the-uyghur-extremist-group-china-wants-taliban-to-crack-down-on/722635/ , https://news.cgtn.com/news/2019-12-07/The-black-hand-ETIM-and-terrorism-in-Xinjiang-MepKpOPAKA/index.html I am not sure , from an altogether objective standpoint , if the deradicalization methods used by Beijing are appropriate or not , but I do recognize that some measures have had to be taken to pacify the region . And I don't see the United States offering suggestions , and assistance in regards to China's own war on terror . This is all that I can say , given my lack of extensive , detailed information . As Mao Zedong himself once said ,
Image
More Forums: The History Forum. The UK Politics Forum.
© 2000- Soviet-Empire.com. Privacy.
[ Top ]