Quote:You didn't reply to anything I said. I didn't say there would be some kind of law passed, or any special trials, simply shoot and kill all drug dealers on sight. You didn't even address this.
Of course I did. It's not my problem if you didn't see that point addressed. First off, peddlers aren't finite in number. And unlike an invading foreign army, a vice is subject to local demand & exists because of it.
Killing drug dealers on sight will just spawn a new generation of peddlers. As long as there is a demand, there will be people willing to satisfy it, no matter what the risk. If people are willing to take up Alaskan snow crab fishing (fishing for one of these is riskier than going to a war btw)- they'll surely be willing & able to take up drug peddling, if demand in society is large enough. Especially considering the latter is much more profitable.
Again, with stupid draconian laws, you are just going to end up pushing the activity further underground. And the tendency amongst your law enforcement personnel is to go after the peddler & the user more so than the chief supplier- usually a powerful black marketeer. This has happened in Thailand, the US- and every country that has moronic anti drug laws in place.
Quote:Not only have they halted the growth in drug use rates, they've actually managed to bring them down a little.
You mean
REPORTED growth in drug use rates? You've surely forgotten the corruption & graft charges metted out against against Thaksin's ex police chiefs? You mean to say I couldn't get away with a 15,000 Bhat bribe to a cop in Khao San road if I got caught with drugs in the height of Thaksin's crackdown campaign in Thailand- even in spite of those "shoot to kill" orders?
And karma surely got the better of Thaksin, serves the coward right. And Thaksin's "shoot to kill" orders produced more civilian casualties in Thailand than any ultra terrorist outfit.
Quote:Simply kill them all, everyone associated with the drug business. Imprison users. There is no black market, as everyone associated with the substances is dead.
Yeah...simply "kill them all" for taking a pill or shooting a syringe
I guess I should be glad you didn't suggest reopening unit 731 for drug users & peddlers.
Your policy is only as good as your law enforcement on the ground. What makes you think they're going to go after cartels & black marketeers who actually do the actual supply generation? Rather than do showcase executions of small time peddlers & grandly orchastrated and televised imprisonment of users?
COnsidering the drug incarceration rates in the US, care to tell me what % of them consist of users / peddlers & actual supply generators?
And considering users are willing to defy health risks to take substances (ex: heroine, MDMA), expecting them to altogether drop their demand after the passage of an anti drug law is moronically naive, no offense. The drug scene will be pushed further underground, and prices will rise. Yet- demand doesn't change.
And unlike panzer divisions, drugs are subject to domestic demand. Trying to stamp out local demand of a commodity with machine guns sounds a bit too childish a proposition.
Quote:And so you live in a shithole of a country where the police officers aren't worth the air they breathe; that's your problem, not mine. I'm talking about my own country, and the drug problem that's tearing it apart.
But too bad for you this article is talking about Vietnam- whose law enforcement personnel & the bureaucracy of law enforcement resembles India more so than Canada. And even if you're talking about Canada- implementing an utterly stupid policy like "shoot to kill" on drug users / peddlers- going by present day ground realities there, you aren't staying in office for more than a few weeks at the most.
I'd issue a "shoot to kill" order if there was a zombie outbreak or something but on normal people who just have a habit? That's ludicrously insanely...dumb. No offense, I'm sorry.
And there's no need to bring my country down into the picture with stupid, brainless labeling. At least till it sold out to UN mandates, it worked by addressing the ground reality of drugs, not defying them.
Quote:I'm talking about my own country, and the drug problem that's tearing it apart.
So you need better social programmes,
MUCH more NGO involvement- that don't treat substance users like roadside dirt. And get them involved into the economy rather than point fingers at them sitting in a centrally airconditioned room.
The military should be saved to confront capitalist imperialist expansionists.
Quote:where the police officers aren't worth the air they breathe
Here's what your "open and honest" cops in the "developed world, who don't take bribes" are up to:
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2006/11/22/153017/60Quote:In Northeast Atlanta, near Georgia Tech, police made a drug buy from a house and came back with a search warrant, raiding the house. They shot dead a 92 year old woman who had a gun defending her house. The Atlanta police involved seemed, to me, particularly cavalier about the entire matter. "'This seems like another tragedy involving drugs,' [ADA] Howard said."
At least our cops don't go about shooting up 92 year old grannies & making heroes out of themselves over it. There's your "shoot to kill" policy, are you happy? The victims are folks like this more so than the nefarious shady black market operators.
Has this shoot to kill incidents like this stopped drugs in the US? Yeah, right. To actually go down to a "ultra nazi" drug policy- UAE has a death penalty for drugs- especially large quantities of gardah, but with about 2,000- 2,500 AED and by visiting the docks, you can get a willing "freelancer" to smuggle gardah for you with not too much searching. And Saudi too has a death penalty for drugs, but in areas like Jiddah, you can get almost any drug your mind could possibly thirst for by simply visiting a few taxi stands near the ARAMCO complex.
And- here's the consequences of using law enforcement to address a social issue:
http://www.hr95.org/children.htmlQuote:Over 75% of the female prisoners in the United States are mothers.
It costs taxpayers $20,000 a year per child for foster care.
About 1.5 million children have a parent behind bars today.
So, imagine a full on shoot to kill policy, what would that do to the statistics above. That's
A LOT of orphaned children there man considering 75% of female prisoners in the drug war are mothers. And as per your idea, they should be brutally gunned down, right?
Orphaning kids & shattering families should be left to the imperialist exploitator and is most certainly not a job for any semi sane Socialist.
And here are more stats:
http://www.hr95.org/hr95faces.htmlAnd just 3% of those "impounded" for drug crimes are violent offenders- according to the US dept. of prison statistics, that too (check that site). So, 97% are non violent or haven't indulged in violence. And you want to machine gun them down?
I mean you're suggesting that governments use the most extreme form of violence (death) against non violent folk. I mean...what's the rationale behind that?
Quote:I'm no longer going to reply to your posts
Good riddence...
And- Fin Fang Foom put it perfectly:-
Quote:Legalizing all drugs will remove the black market and it's violent elements literally over night. Prohibition doesn't work, this has been proven time and time again throughout history. If there is a demand for a product someone will find a means to fill it. It's the simple truth, you cannot legislate morality nor should you.
I wouldn't "legalize" hard drugs, but I'd most certainly decriminilize it enough to keep it away from law enforcement.