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Gun ownership in the USSR & WP states

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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 12 May 2010, 07:43
Ideology: Other Leftist
Politburo
Post 04 Oct 2010, 20:19
While browsing the internet, I came across one of those right-wing, gun lobby/NRA propaganda pictures that feature the pictures various famous politicians and "The Experts Agree: Gun Control Works!" written on it. This one had Hitler, Mao, Castro, Stalin, Khomeini, Pol Pot, various politicians in the Democratic Party, Arnold Schwarzenegger (because California has pretty strict gun control laws), and for whatever reason Rosie O'Donnell. Anyway, the stupidity of the picture aside, it did get me wondering if the Soviet Union & Warsaw Pact states had any official policies on the sale/distribution of firearms and gun ownership. Does anyone have a lot of information on this?

I'd always just assumed that it was similar to China, where firearms could be owned by soldiers and law enforcement. For instance, my grandfather on my father's side had a gun when he was a judge, and on my mother's side one of my uncles and a cousin of mine both have access to firearms due to being in law enforcement and the military, respectively.

inb4 I shouldn't be making assumptions.
“Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals” - Mark Twain
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Sep 2006, 22:05
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Post 04 Oct 2010, 20:46
According to wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politi ... ng_tyranny

Guns didn't start being restricted until under Stalin. Although they don't mention what guns in particular were restricted I think its safe to assume that hunting rifles were legal as were small handguns.

I'm not surprised by this as most of Stalin's reign was a marked decline in power distributed to the bottom. I've said it before on this forum and I'll say it again: Redistributing the means of production to the people means nothing if you do not redistribute the means to defend these gains. That is if you're not willing to have fully armed workers you're leaving the door wide open to thermidor.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 13 Sep 2010, 04:15
Pioneer
Post 05 Oct 2010, 03:23
Gun ownership was restricted and nearly non-existent but from what I was told most people were trained in basic weapon use it during high school.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 12 May 2010, 07:43
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Post 05 Oct 2010, 03:35
Red Commissar wrote:
Gun ownership was restricted and nearly non-existent but from what I was told most people were trained in basic weapon use it during high school.

That is very likely the case, then. My cousin in the PRC was taught to use firearms when he was in high school, before going on to university. My mother had to learn to use firearms when she was young as well. Thanks to both the incredibly retarded Sino-Soviet Split and the PRC's rocky relations with the USA, almost everyone under a certain age was given some military training (mostly how to use a weapon) in case of an invasion by either the Soviets or the Americans. I wouldn't be surprised if young people in the Warsaw Pact states also had to go through similar training to form partisan units in the event of a foreign invasion.
“Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals” - Mark Twain
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
Ideology: Trotskyism
Embalmed
Post 05 Oct 2010, 06:23
Quote:
I wouldn't be surprised if young people in the Warsaw Pact states also had to go through similar training to form partisan units in the event of a foreign invasion.


Yeah, military training was a school subject from grade 9 onwards in the GDR. And once a year, students went to military training camps. Supposedly, that was an awesome opportunity to get laid.

Gun ownership laws were quite restrictive though, and I've got to say I can't quite agree with Dagoth's reasoning. I don't want weirdos to have weapons, sry.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Sep 2006, 22:05
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Post 06 Oct 2010, 04:31
Mabool wrote:
I don't want weirdos to have weapons, sry.


I never said there wouldn't be certain people excluded from ownership. The insane, convicted criminals (for a temporary period depending on the severity of their crime, permanent if need be), known or convicted counterrevolutionaries, and ranking members of non-communist organizations.

However your everyday John J. Proletarian should have no restriction on his connection to the means of war. And really if we can't trust them with the means of war how could we possibly trust them with the means of production?
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"Bin Laden was a badass
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jan 2010, 05:46
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Post 08 Oct 2010, 22:58
In Albaina starting in 1976 when the APL decided on a new constitution citizens were encouraged to train with weapons to make quick partisans so I'm guessing that lots of people had guns in Albania and that gun laws weren't to strict.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
Philosophized
Post 08 Oct 2010, 23:29
Quote:
In Albaina starting in 1976 when the APL decided on a new constitution citizens were encouraged to train with weapons to make quick partisans

Well citizens of all WP states(particularly Yugoslavia) were obliged to train themselves in (guerilla in YU case) warfare tactics and weapon use,but that doesn't mean they were allowed to have weapons(besides hunting rifles and similar).
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 12 May 2010, 07:43
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Post 09 Oct 2010, 00:27
Loz wrote:
Well citizens of all WP states(particularly Yugoslavia)

Yugoslavia wasn't in the WP, which was what I was asking about.
Though I do appreciate that extra bit of info.
“Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals” - Mark Twain
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 17 Jul 2006, 00:10
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Post 09 Oct 2010, 00:43
Quote:
Well citizens of all WP states(particularly Yugoslavia) were obliged to train themselves in (guerilla in YU case) warfare tactics and weapon use,but that doesn't mean they were allowed to have weapons(besides hunting rifles and similar).


albanians citizen had more liberties when it came to guns. otherwise they wouldnt be able to stage their revolution in 1997 and send tons of weapons and ammunition to terrorist groups in serbia, macedonia, montenegro and greece
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Oct 2004, 22:04
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Post 09 Oct 2010, 03:39
Dagoth Ur wrote:
Guns didn't start being restricted until under Stalin.


That's not quite accurate Dagoth. As early as March 1918 the fledgling state issued a decree on the surrender of weapons. Here's an article that I should translate one day (perhaps you can get the jist by using googletranslate for now):

http://guner.ru/razreshitelnaya-sistema-v-rossii/

Notice how the wiki claim on gun control in the Soviet Union has messed up sourcing, talking about gun control beginning in 1929 while sourcing decrees of 1918 and 1920.


I agree with Dagoth's logic. Working people must have a means for defending the gains of the revolution, against external and internal threats to their power.
"The thing about capitalism is that it sounds awful on paper and is horrendous in practice. Communism sounds wonderful on paper and when it was put into practice it was done pretty well for what they had to work with." -MiG
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jan 2010, 05:46
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Post 09 Oct 2010, 03:40
Quote:
but that doesn't mean they were allowed to have weapons(besides hunting rifles and similar).

Are you sure? If they wanted quick partisansn it seem like people would have like assault rifles or something better then a hunting rifle.

Also in Czechoslovakia there were Workers militias but the government eventually took control of them but they were armed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s ... hoslovakia)#section_2
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"Those who do not move, do not notice their chains." - Rosa Luxemburg
Long Live The Bolivarian Revolution!
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Sep 2006, 22:05
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Post 09 Oct 2010, 04:48
soviet78 wrote:
http://guner.ru/razreshitelnaya-sistema-v-rossii/

Notice how the wiki claim on gun control in the Soviet Union has messed up sourcing, talking about gun control beginning in 1929 while sourcing decrees of 1918 and 1920.


Makes sense wiki was wrong yet again. And I can understand the early bolsheviks putting gun control in place. Sometimes the best laid plans.
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"Bin Laden was a badass
Bin Laden was a man that smoked his grass
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Bin Laden you've really been a good friend to me"
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Soviet cogitations: 9977
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
Ideology: Trotskyism
Embalmed
Post 17 Oct 2010, 02:11
Yo, Dagoth.

Doesn't this show that armed workers can be a massive error?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uprising_o ... st_Germany
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Mar 2010, 01:20
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Post 17 Oct 2010, 04:01
I really don't think it sounds very sensible to allow any potentially ideologically 'unsound' citizens having access to firearms. This would require some incredibly intensive screening (sorting out exactly who can be trusted and who can't) - you need to be a little bit practical.
Dagoth Ur wrote:
However your everyday John J. Proletarian should have no restriction on his connection to the means of war. And really if we can't trust them with the means of war how could we possibly trust them with the means of production?

If we control the guns it is pretty safe to allow workers to control the means of production.

Eventually (Under Full Communism), firearms will be freely available to all (or hopefully extinct), but we have to take some self-defensive measures in the meanwhile. There are going to be people dissatisfied with the current state of affairs. How many Fanya Kaplan types are there going to in such a situation?
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Sep 2006, 22:05
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Post 17 Oct 2010, 20:32
Mabool wrote:
Doesn't this show that armed workers can be a massive error?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uprising_o ... st_Germany


No actually it shows that being heavy handed with the workers is an absolutely awful idea. One of the perennial failures of Stalinism is such heavy-handedness. It also gives your enemies the ability to infiltrate legitimate opposition with the concept of 'they're not gonna listen so lets just overthrow them'. Armed workers almost forces the state to have this dialogue. Essentially this is my whole premise. If the worker's cannot defeat a thermidoric state we have already lost.

Shigalyov wrote:
I really don't think it sounds very sensible to allow any potentially ideologically 'unsound' citizens having access to firearms.


Yes it does because even the most 'ideologically unsound' won't go to war if no one wants to join him. There are plenty of communists in the west with a lot of guns but we don't randomly go shoot up places just because they're capitalist enemies. Of course anyone abusing the rights to firearms will be, must be, harshly dealt with.

Shigalyov wrote:
This would require some incredibly intensive screening (sorting out exactly who can be trusted and who can't) - you need to be a little bit practical.


Its simple, to get a license to own firearms (non hunting weapons) you'd only have to pass a rudimentary safety course along with a pretty basic background history. In america we already have to wait a week to buy a gun I don't see any reason why we can't do the same for our own nations.

Owning weapons should be looked at as a very serious thing but we should not be preventing workers from having them. Or even worse concentrating them in our own hands wherein we start to see a scenario of workers policed by the party rather than represented by it.

Shigalyov wrote:
Eventually (Under Full Communism), firearms will be freely available to all (or hopefully extinct), but we have to take some self-defensive measures in the meanwhile.


Our self-defense can only be expressed as defense of the workers. But then often our continued survival is the defense of the workers.

Shigalyov wrote:
There are going to be people dissatisfied with the current state of affairs.


Of course there are. But since things like stockpiling would be illegal and we'd be looking for them, most would get caught and the rest would be banned from ever picking up a pee-shooter again.

Shigalyov wrote:
How many Fanya Kaplan types are there going to in such a situation?


Thousands. This is no excuse however for taking away the one guarantee of proletarian supremacy we've got. Not only should our allied workes be armed, they should be fully trained on how to take us down should we turn against them. What I'm saying should only worry you if you intend to eventually betray their trust.

Now to be clear on my position, immediately post-revolution the only people allowed to have guns will be those who fought for the revolution (our revolution), officially, and ourselves. After things have been stabilized and we've achieved internal peace (that is violent discontent being reduced to like five percent of the population) then we can effect sweeping gun rights laws, which will necessarily involve a humongous education campaign.
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"Bin Laden was a badass
Bin Laden was a man that smoked his grass
Bin Laden you'll be in our memories
Bin Laden you've really been a good friend to me"
- Streetguy

KILLED IT!
Soviet cogitations: 4
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 28 Jan 2011, 04:07
New Comrade (Say hi & be nice to me!)
Post 28 Jan 2011, 04:11
It is possible to have firearms in Viet Nam. There are many shooting ranges throughout the country, most predominantly in the major cities such as Ho Chi Minh City or Ha Noi.
Although many people don't usually go due to the fact that bullets are quite expensive here, last time I have seen it was approximately $1 per bullet.
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