[Gabriel14859]

Good article in this excellent blog about the culture of soviet christmas cards..and revealing that some people are now collecting them...does anyone on this forum have any old soviet christmas cards tucked away??

http://unrepentantcommunist.blogspot.com/

[Misuzu]

This topic is now moved to Memorabilia.

[cadre]

That asian looking boy with his astronaut suit is just so fantastically sweet..

[Mabool]

Yes he is.

[Kochoson]

new year, not christmas

[Corsar]

Quote:

Good article in this excellent blog about the culture of soviet christmas cards..and revealing that some people are now collecting them...does anyone on this forum have any old soviet christmas cards tucked away??

In Soviet Union the Christmas day was banned, celebration of Christmas was prohibited and people were penalized. Communist party members were excommunicated if they celebrate it, every kind of punishment were assigned, schoolchildren were given bad degree in schools etc etc. In Christmastime party members were ordered to peek into peoples' flats by night time through windows - are there set up any christmastrees. If there were - people were punished. In Baltic states there was big tradition to go to churches in christmas eve - again the schoolteachers were organized to pick up their pupils. Special traditional christmas food was hold in stores and was prohibited to sell in shops during christmastime.
So there wasn't any christmas cards as well in Soviet Union.
Obviously Gabriel14859 mean New Year congratulation cards which were allowed and spread during New Year holiday period.

[Fellow Comrade]

Do you have a source for those claims Corsar?

[The Key]

I think what Corsar said, depends on which time period it was, and how the government at that time tolerated religious celebrations.

However, I can't imagine, that it was that extreme:

Quote:

every kind of punishment were assigned, schoolchildren were given bad degree in schools etc etc. In Christmastime party members were ordered to peek into peoples' flats by night time through windows - are there set up any christmastrees. If there were - people were punished.

[Fellow Comrade]

It's pretty clear that the Soviets didn't support commercialism at Christmas time, how could any Socialist, or Christian for that matter? I think you are right that it probably depended on the specific era.

[Corsar]

To Fellow Comrade and The Key

Just do google: "christmas+prohibited+ussr" and You'll get plenty of information like following:

Quote:

Before the XX Century it was an Eve of Christmas just like everywhere else in Christian countries, but with the Christmas prohibited in the Soviet Union for the most part of the XX Century, the occasion moved to the New Year.

Just look at the beginning of the article http://www.mistsofrussia.info/cold/fatherfrost.php

Quote:

After the Revolution of 1917, Christmas was officially banned...

http://www.goldenglow.org/antique-russian-ornaments.htm

Quote:

The Soviet communists prohibited religious celebrations such as Christmas and Easter, despite centuries of Russian Orthodox tradition, but they allowed New Year celebrations.

http://www.ucanews.com/2006/01/06/new-year-wears-the-trappings-of-christmas/

[Fellow Comrade]

http://www.mistsofrussia.info/cold/fatherfrost.php

Well this article doesn't provide any source for it's claim. In fact there's one only one sentence on the subject...

http://www.goldenglow.org/antique-russian-ornaments.htm

If you read a little further than the little tid bit you quoted.

"After the Revolution of 1917, Christmas was officially banned, with the prohibition lasting until about 1935"

(Emphasis mine)

I think it should be taken into account that Christmas was officially banned. I doubt the Soviet Authorities would have had the will or ability to try to stop Soviet citizens celebrating the birth of Jesus altogether (even before 1935). The New Year holiday merely became Christmas and New Year wrapped into one. And Dec 25 as the birthday of Christ is disputed, so who cares which day Soviet Citizens celebrated (Dec 31st is actually a good compromise between the 25th and the 7th - Orthodox date for celebrating Christmas). They were given an opportunity which is the most important thing. I'd like to see some proof for your outlandish claims like school kids being given low marks because they celebrated Christmas. Given that Soviet law was designed to maintain stability and inter-ethnic peace, I don't see how you can. Keep in mind that many teachers on the Soviet Union would have been Christians themselves. Why would they penalise their fellow believers?

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=travel&res=950CEFD8153BF931A15751C1A963948260

Quote:

This is a special season in much of the world. In some countries Christmas is the centerpiece of the celebration, in others New Year's or Twelfth Night. Following are reports from 15 Times correspondents and bureaus on how the holidays are celebrated in their areas, and tips on how a visitor can join in - or cope with - them.

One advantage of spending Christmas in Moscow is that there is usually ample snow and lovely picture-postcard winter scenery. The disadvantage is that no one except resident foreigners will be celebrating anything on Dec. 25.

For the Russian Orthodox, who still reckon time by the Julian church calendar, Dec. 25 falls on what is Jan. 7 on the Gregorian calendar used in the West, and it is then that the believers will gather in churches to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ.

The secular attributes of Christmas - the lighted tree, the gifts, the cards, Santa Claus, street decorations - have been assigned by the Soviet state to New Year's, and it is then, starting on Dec. 31, that Russians will try to do justice by both New Year's and Christmas, combining the midnight drinking of the former and the gift-giving and family cheer of the latter in ample measures.

The idea of the hybrid holiday is usually attributed to Stalin. In the first years after the revolution, the Bolsheviks apparently tried to stamp out the celebration of Christmas altogether, targeting the traditional decorated fir trees as a particularly glaring symbol of reactionary rituals for which there was no place in the new atheist society.

The people, however, proved reluctant to part with a cherished winter holiday. So in 1935, the story goes, Stalin did what the Kremlin has done so many times since with sticky customs - he co-opted it. He lifted the ban on Christmas trees, except that he said they were New Year's trees, and he declared that New Year's, Novyi God, was to be a national family holiday - a sort of surrogate Christmas stripped of any Christian meaning.

The people, it must be acknowledged, took to the idea. New Year's has evolved into probably the most popular of official Soviet holidays, in part perhaps because it has remained largely free of the ponderous ideological and civic baggage of May Day or Revolution Day. Instead of the hammers and sickles and slogans, the streets are hung with bright lights, decorated with brightly decorated trees, and the stern Lenins and Marxs make way for Grandpa Frost, the Russian Santa Claus.

The Soviet New Year's, in fact, has become pretty much what Christmas has become in the secular Western world - a day for families to gather and share gifts and goodies under a tree, brightly lit and trimmed with homemade decorations.

For the foreigner in Moscow, probably the best place to be on New Year's Eve is Red Square. It's not Times Square, but it can be fun. Several hundred Russians and foreigners gather to sing, share champagne and await the stroke of midnight from the chimes of the Spassky Tower. If snow is falling on the storybook cupolas of St. Basil's and the tall ramparts of the Kremlin, so much the better.

With the current crackdown on public drinking, there is no telling whether the traditional champagne will be allowed to flow in public this year. But in the past, Red Square has known displays of good old New Year's bedlam seriously at variance with the decorum of the sacred square, with foreigners and Russians competing in good cheer and off-key song.

Even the NY times with its strong Liberal bias has admitted that Christmas celebrations were tolerated in the Soviet Union. And Christians were allowed to celebrate it on January 7 as is preferred by the Orthodox church. I see nothing specific suggesting that non-Orthodox Christians were banned from celebrating among themselves on the 25th if they wished.

Just for interest sake.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_n1_v42/ai_8295005

Quote:

Moscow - In the Soviet Union Christmas normally begins in the Baltics, for it is only there that Catholics and Protestants commemorate the holiday according to the Gregorian Calendar - the so-called "new style." The other churches - the Russian Orthodox Church and the Armenian Gregorian Church, to be sure, but even the Ukrainian Catholic Church of the Eastern Rite and Baptists and other Protestants - celebrate Christmas 13 days later, according to the Julian Calendar.

This year, however [1990], it would not suffice to describe only what was happening in the Baltics on December 24 and 25, although there, for the first time in dozens of years, Christmas not only was celebrated nationwide, but was even recognized as a national holiday by the Communist authorities. In Lithuania all 630 Catholic churches summoned believers to Mass by tolling their church bells for the first time since the Soviet takeover in 1940. In Vilnius Cathedral, Archbishop Julionas Stepanavicius celebrated Mass, which was broadcast over the radio and television, to be heard by all Lithuanians. Throughout the republic there were concerts of religious music, and city squares for the first time displayed brightly shimmering Christmas trees.

And again, despite the Liberal bias, the facts start to come out. This was in my opinion one of the few good things to come out of the Gorbachev era.

[Corsar]

To Fellow comrade

You see, belief is a strong phenomenon. If tens of years they keep repeating there is not better place in the Earth than Soviet Union, one might start to believe. Obviously so You do believe. But never forget, there are other views and even facts - just let yourself free and try to look others' point of views. And sometimes, unfortunately, things might be not to look so beautiful. Sorry for spoiling your ideals...
Some examples I found in ten minutes are following:

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-3802214.html

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...in countries occupied by the Soviet Union, such as Lithuania, priests are being fined for organizing a Christmas tree and program even in the church enclosure.
When we assemble for solemn devotions in churches we have to remember that in Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia - occupied by Russia - boys are forbidden to be altar boys, girls cannot take part in processions, students cannot sing in a church choir and state officials might lose their positions if they are seen taking part in church devotions.

Following is the story, how Stalin turned spiritual, real christams to New Years Eve celebration in Soviet Empire - http://www.adventuresofrustywaters.com/2006/12/a_most_unlikely_christmas_stor.php :

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Christmas was not only banished, but anyone who would dare to celebrate it, by having a tree or any other part of this grand holiday, was subject to fines, imprisonment or worse!

Just one example more http://www.katycitizens.org/index_files/Page4253.htm:

Quote:

Christians in the former Soviet Union exhibited bravery and courage in confronting Communism's anti-Christmas campaign. One person recalled how the young people would go out in the streets and sing Christmas carols, knowing that if police heard them, they would be arrested.

[Fellow Comrade]

I completely agree that belief is a strong phenomenon which is why I don't expect to change your mind. I'm very interested in facts which is why I have made no attempt to conceal that Christmas was banned for a short time, a huge mistake on Lenin's part. However, it is also a fact that it was lifted and celebrations allowed once again. And who is attributed to it being lifted? Stalin. The man almost everybody in the Western world believes was an oppressive dictator.

Quote:

But never forget, there are other views and even facts - just let yourself free and try to look others' point of views.

Exactly. I've seen claims like the ones made in the articles you've brought up and believed it for most of my life. It is only recently that I started to question them. So, I would suggest that I have indeed "let myself free and tried to look at others points of view".

From the first article:

Quote:

In a free and prosperous America we will celebrate Christmas by a brightly shining Christmas tree. But we should remember that in countries occupied by the Soviet Union, such as Lithuania, priests are being fined for organizing a Christmas tree and program even in the church enclosure.

When we assemble for solemn devotions in churches we have to remember that in Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia - occupied by Russia - boys are forbidden to be altar boys, girls cannot take part in processions, students cannot sing in a church choir and state officials might lose their positions if they are seen taking part in church devotions. Rev. Joseph Prunskis, director of information, Lithuanian ...

This is just and example American Cold War rhetoric. All it contains are allegations with no evidence of any kind to back them up. I would imagine the full article contains statements from Soviet dissidents, but I would expect them to make outrageous claims in order to get sympathy. Not exactly convincing. I can say with certainty that none of this kind of thing occurred in Orthodox parts of the country (at least post 1935 that is) and I see no reason why it would have occurred in parts of the Soviet Union where other forms of Christianity were practiced.

The second article is clearly another example of Anti-Communist propaganda, but putting the rhetoric aside, even this backs up my claims about Christmas in the Soviet Union.

Quote:

From that day on, Russians have celebrated the New Year rather than what we Americans think of as the traditional Christmas of December 25th. They celebrate the Russian Orthodox Christmas of January 7th in a religious sense, but presents, trees, cards and other secular good wishes are centered around the New Year's celebration.

What is wrong with this? In Western nations, the real meaning of Christmas has been bastardised by secular tradition. Separating the two could only have been a good thing. Again, I am yet to be convinced that any sort of religious celebration was prohibited on the 25th and as I've already shown, it was eventually made a national holiday along with the 31st (and I would assume the 7th).

The third article doesn't contain anything I haven't already addressed save the accusation of Christmas being banned in Cuba and the bit about Silent Night in Vietnam. It was indeed banned from 1969 until 1997, however, I have found nothing concrete to indicate any attempt to stop Christians acknowledging the birth of Christ.

http://www.theholidayspot.com/christmas ... s/cuba.htm

Quote:

Christmas in Cuba is one of the most joyous occasions in the country and observed with great fun and festivity. Following the declaration of Cuba as an atheist nation in 1962, the festival was removed from list of holidays of Cuban calendar in the year 1969 when Fidel Castro decided it was interfering with the sugar harvest festival. Cuban authorities banned the public display of Christmas trees and nativity scenes, other than in places frequented by tourists, such as hotels. But in 1997, President Castro restored the holiday to honor, in the honor of the visit of Pope John Paul II in the island.

With Christmas coming back to its former glory, a large Mass is now held in Havana's Revolution Square. Thousands of Cubans worship at midnight Masses, as church bells ring out across Havana at the stroke of the midnight hour signifying the transition from Christmas Eve to Christmas Day. Giant-sized TV screens are set up in the square outside Havanna's cathedral so that crowds can watch the Pope celebrate Christmas Mass at St. Peter's in Rome.

Cubans celebrate Christmas with much enthusiasm and revelry. Gifts are a major highlight of Christmas celebrations in Cuba. Since the occassion signifies spreading love and happiness among fellow human beings, gifts are an inseperable part of the festivities. Those who can afford it try to make a special meal and decorate their houses, and church-going Christians attend services. Cubans spend the days before Christmas buying beans, bananas, fruits and other foods and gifts in preparation for their holiday festivities. Houses are beautifully decorated for Christmas. Dazzling lights, beautiful Christmas tree, balloons, gifts, toys, bells, stars are the major components of Christmas celebrations.

And with regard to Vietnam, I'd like to remind people that Christianity is a minority religion in most parts of Asia. South Korea is the only country in all of East Asia to recognise Christmas with a national holiday. That said, there has never been a ban on Christmas in Vietnam to my knowledge.

[LennonLenin]

Quote:

Good article in this excellent blog about the culture of soviet christmas cards..and revealing that some people are now collecting them...does anyone on this forum have any old soviet christmas cards tucked away??

http://unrepentantcommunist.blogspot.com/

Very nice Blog Page! Thanks for posting that!