[Dagoth Ur]

No. Islam has many ideas that are conducive to communism. The current atmosphere in the middle east isn't conducive to communism, but Islam is.

[fontis]

The political system of which Islam preaches for is basically a form of communism/socialism. Every decision is to be made by "Shuras", gatherings or citizen councils if you will, and power is hugely decentralized. Well, I'm not going to go through every economic aspect because I'm too lazy to, but needless to say that Islam shares the same economical structure with Marxism, it's simply written in a different way.

"5 neighbours in all directions should have roof over their head and be able to eat and live properly."

"Don't take more than you need, give your surplus to those who don't have."

~~

[Wheelchairmaniacal]

No more so than any other religion. It's contradictory in many parts. Isam also describes the necessity of the Caliphates. Christianity when you get down to the doctrine of christ should technically have no priests (at all). Christianity is literally against leaders. It's so impressive the way it's been perverted. The Qu'ran also preaches a form of corporal punishment that should be distasteful by today's standards. Islam does not preach redistribution, redistribution falls under the economic law of Shari'ah, you don't have redistribution, you have charity in the form of a small tax on wealth.

The same could be said of Islam. I find all religions to be interesting but when it comes down to it, they are all equally progressive. This doesn't mean that they don't have beautiful messages, and that their ideas weren't progressive for their time (and some of the ideas are still progressive.)

No Islam does not excite me, neither do other religions. The far left likes to view Islam the same way celebrities view Buddhism.

[Dagoth Ur]

Islam isn't special to me. If it were I would still be muslim wouldn't I?
This is more of a response to some rather uninformed people who try to claim that islam is somehow completely incompatable with communism.

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This doesn't mean that they don't have beautiful messages, and that their ideas weren't progressive for their time (and some of the ideas are still progressive.)

Exactly.

[fontis]

Actually, the Caliphate is more of a guardian of the religion rather than a supreme leader.

The Caliphate is in other words the General Secretary of sorts

[Antarque]

Religion is people's opium (I don't know if that's the exact way Marx said it in english, but that's the french translation).

Religion is not fundamentaly bad, but because it gives an "absolute truth", it's a step toward intolerance : if you think your religion is absolutely right, well everybody who don't agree with you is wrong, and so you want to impose them your truth.

[Dagoth Ur]

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(I don't know if that's the exact way Marx said it in english, but that's the french translation).

Religion is the opiate of the Masses.<- English version.

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Religion is not fundamentaly bad, but because it gives an "absolute truth", it's a step toward intolerance : if you think your religion is absolutely right

Just as patriotism allows for nationalism (non-oppressed). Although I'm of the opinion that there is no such thing as a truth. Nothing is absolute, not even the laws of physics.

[MagillaGuerrilla]

Any communists who reject the benefits of religion are essentially naive. Religion is a way to inspire the people to great achievements and humanitarian acts, and is often a great catalyst for positive social change. No religion is 'opposed' to socialism, and most ancient religious figures (esp. in the Abrahamic faiths) have had socialist ideas.

Muslims have the right to be Muslims, and no true communist would argue otherwise.

[Antarque]

I Don't reject religion's benefict, but I'm suspicious about the problems it rises

[Crimson Flag]

Religion is a part of the human exsperience, communist are humanist so they should allow people to exspress thier humanity.

[Cata]

About opium, people say "opiate of the masses" but Marx said "opium of the people" as a more accurate translation.

Anyway, I voted yes. There are many political aspects meant to fuse religion and state, which is bad. But all major religions have developed this so I can't really single out Islam except in saying that Muhammad knew that a strong religion would need to be fused with the state whereas Jesus, Buddha, ect weren't going for that.

And it does have some good ideas and it was basically progressive when it came about. Even today people rally around it as an anti-imperialist force, so...

[Crimson Flag]

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Anyway, I voted yes. There are many political aspects meant to fuse religion and state, which is bad. But all major religions have developed this so I can't really single out Islam except in saying that Muhammad knew that a strong religion would need to be fused with the state whereas Jesus, Buddha, ect weren't going for that.

This came from the guy who stated:

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Zionism is a haven to jewish supremists but I haven't seen evidence that jewish supremism is integral to the movement; rather that preserving the jewish nationality and their "chosen land" is needed. THe problem is when you tack on "at all costs" as the Isreali government obviously has. A lot of people in Isreal are very displeased with their government in many ways.

Seems like a bit of a double standard if you ask me.

[Kaze]

Depends what is meant...Is this referring to actual Islam or the typical American view of Islam or Islamic government or what?

[kaneva]

religion is a enemy of communism, talk like this is dangerous, on one hand islam and communism may have similar points, but since ANY religion is a enemy, this conversation or debate is void.

[Dagoth Ur]

No this is very valid conversation. The majority of people are never going to abandon their religions. Which is why we need to be able to provide a sort of theological rationalization (what an oxymoron that is). If we can say, 'hey look your religion support us' we'll be far better off than normal, where the capitalists and fundementalists tell the religious that we are evil invaders hoping to destroy their religions.

[arif_moin]

Sufi'ism is very condusive to Socialism & Communism. Wahabi'ism is very anti Socialist & anti communist and resembles something like Euro mercantilism. Islam has several schools of thought...

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religion is a enemy of communism

Not if it's confined to the household & kept away from society & politics.

[Cata]

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Seems like a bit of a double standard if you ask me.

Not really. I've defended the nationalist/anti-imperialist aspect of both. I could criticize some aspects of the jewish religion if you wished but it's hardly related and the jewish religion hasn't been talked about at all, although Islam is currently being discussed.

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religion is a enemy of communism,

Religion in the government is an enemy of communism...

[Roam]

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Religion is people's opium

of course,

religions only create violence.

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don't believe in a religion, I'm non-religious. I hate all religions
But I also believe that we can't force people to quit their religions... but we can educate them against such stuipid ideas.
I believe in Darwinism, even during the renaissance they opposed the develpoement of science because they[capitalists] knew if the people get to know about the truth, they wouldn't believe in religions, and so they wouldn't be able to cotrol them through religion. Capitalists use religion to make people more docile and easier to control...

P.S: when I was talking about renaissance I was mostly reffering to the time when they wanted to burn Galileo for his discoveries.

we must massacre them!!

[Dagoth Ur]

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even during the renaissance they opposed the develpoement of science because they[capitalists] knew if the people get to know about the truth,

Uh... WTF? The renaissance was during feudal times not capitalist times.

[Roam]

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Karl Marx on feudalism
Quite similar to the French revolutionaries, Karl Marx also used the term feudalism for political ends. In the nineteenth century, Marx described feudalism as the economic situation coming before the inevitable rise of capitalism. For Marx, what defined feudalism was that the power of the ruling class (the aristocracy) rested on their control of the farmable lands, leading to a class society based upon the exploitation of the peasants who farm these lands, typically under serfdom. “The hand-mill gives you society with the feudal lord; the steam-mill society with the industrial capitalist.” (The Poverty of Philosophy (1847), chapter 2). Marx thus considered feudalism with a purely economic model. Marxian theorists have been discussing feudalism for the past 150 years - an extensive and well known debate over feudalism and capitalism occurred between the noted Marxian economist Paul Sweezy and his British colleague Maurice Dobb.