[Red_Walker]

Who is the most responsibile for fall of USSR? I think it`s Gorbachev who in fact worked for the Americans and soled out the USSR. Now he lives in USA, he even celebrated his 75th birthday in Croatia, gathernig all politicans responsible for fall of the Berlin wall, fall of USSR and destroying socialism in Europe. Many Russians would rather see him dead now.
What an evil sick bastard! Yuck!

[UCSBSoviet]

OTHER: Lenin


But those guys you have posted up there made heavy contributions as well.

[Red eagle]

I thought Gorbachev was dead?

I think Yeltsin was most responsible, I have wrote a paper entitled 'What was most responsile for the collapse of the USSR, Peristoika and Glasnoss or Boris Yeltsin' (or words to that effect)

If Yeltsin was not there, then there would not hae been a leader for the reformist front, there would not have been a man there to lead a new Russia, Yeltsin was and stil is the worst ever member of the Communist party. If I saw him, I'd get his autograph, then spit in his face!

RE

[chaz171]

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I thought Gorbachev was dead?

no, he is still alive.

[Red_Walker]

Quote:

OTHER: Lenin

?? ??

[Red eagle]

Quote:

no, he is still alive.

Ow, back from the dead, I wonder if the USSR hadnt collapsed if he'd still be their leader now?

Do you reckon you could get me his contact address, I'd love to talk to him!

RE

[UCSBSoviet]

Quote:

?? EEK EEK EEK EEK ??

I was waiting for someone to respond. I disagree with Lenin's vision of a 'revolutionary class' dedicated to ruling the country. (Lenin believed in this because he did not trust the spontinaity(sp?) of the proletariat.) He felt they needed to be guided. I disagree, the working people can manage themselves.

[Red_Walker]

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Do you reckon you could get me his contact address, I'd love to talk to him!

No, his address has to be a secret because many more would like to kill him.

[Red eagle]

Not even a PO box number?

RE



*But I bet there are thousands who would take ANY chance they could to kill him - fekkin sell-out!

[Whitten]

Quote:

I was waiting for someone to respond. I disagree with Lenin's vision of a 'revolutionary class' dedicated to ruling the country. (Lenin believed in this because he did not trust the spontinaity(sp?) of the proletariat.) He felt they needed to be guided. I disagree, the working people can manage themselves.

Its not a revolutionary "class" its a revolutionary vanguard, which consists of the most class consious members of the proletariat. Nothing more.

Plus without Lenin the USSR would never have existed in the first place, so he's hardly responsible for its demise.

[Red_Walker]

Quote:

I was waiting for someone to respond. I disagree with Lenin's vision of a 'revolutionary class' dedicated to ruling the country. (Lenin believed in this because he did not trust the spontinaity(sp?) of the proletariat.) He felt they needed to be guided. I disagree, the working people can manage themselves.

First, you can`t accuse someone of destroying a state, if he founded it in the first place. Lenin lead first socialist revolution ever and created first socialist country. He had contacts with greatest Russian and world`s intelectuals.
I believe if he lived longer a revolution might have succeed in whole world making possible archieving true communism.

Second, look how working people organised themselfs here when our comrade Tito died.



...
From what I know Gorbachev now lives in USA. He is probably under protection of CIA or something.

[UCSBSoviet]

Quote:

Plus without Lenin the USSR would never have existed in the first place, so he's hardly responsible for its demise.

Not if it contained within itself the seeds of its own destruction. Don't get me wrong, I personally think Stalin did a good job with taking Lenin's idea and turning it into a realistic theory. However I do think Lenin's approach was because he had to deal with the Russian proletariat, who were for the most part very uneducated when it came to class conscienceness. Try saying that about the average American worker today.

Also don't get me wrong and assume I disaprove of the USSR. As a ruskie myself, I believe in what my ancestors did and I believe they did it with the hope of building a better future....and that is what counts.

[Richthofen]

I chose Yeltsin because of the August Coup.

[Ossi]

That bloody Shevardnadze. Until this day I believe he worked for the CIA.

And of course the biggest traitor of all, I don't even like to type his name, is that guy with the birth mark on the head.

[Misuzu]

It was Gorbachev and co. who were responsible, hands down. People like Gorbachev, Shevardnaze and the like are traitors that will go down in history as the biggest sellouts since Wang Jingwei.

[Ossi]

Who was Wang Jingwai?

[Richthofen]

I find Yeltsin more responsible because the crushing of the coup allowed him and his cohorts to gain power.

[Fitzy]

Quote:

I believe if he lived longer a revolution might have succeed in whole world making possible archieving true communism.

But red walker. Thats impossible, because a socialist country cannot spread revolution. In order to reach communism the whole world has to revolt simultaneiously!

[Ossi]

I blame Gorbacev, he allowed Yelzin to rise in the first place. Remember that humiliating act in the duma? Gorbacev should have
thrown those sheets of paper back at Yelzin and give him a good beating. But he was to much of a p***y or on the payrole of Langley, Virginia.

[UCSBSoviet]

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But he was to much of a p***y or on the payrole of Langley, Virginia.

I doubt anyone on in the Soviet leadership was ever on the payroll of the CIA.

[Ossi]

Well, one way or the other the damage is done.

[Richthofen]

Quote:

I blame Gorbacev, he allowed Yelzin to rise in the first place. Remember that humiliating act in the duma? Gorbacev should have
thrown those sheets of paper back at Yelzin and give him a good beating. But he was to much of a p***y or on the payrole of Langley, Virginia.

You mean the picture where they are arguiing with each other?

I put the blame more on Yeltsin because he delivered the final blow. Another point of view is that if a regular coup were crushed by a person other than the country's leader, than the country's leader is screwed most of the time, no matter what the country's leader policies were. Gorbachev simply set the stage for Yeltsin to gain power.

[Misuzu]

Quote:

Who was Wang Jingwai?

Wang Jingwei was a Chinese member of the Kuomintang who collaberated with the Imperial Japanese.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_Jingwei

[Ossi]

Richthofen,

The duma scene were Yelzin walks up to Gorbacev and gives him those sheets of paper to sign the dissolution of the USSR.

[Richthofen]

Is there a video of that somewhere? I want to see it to get a good laugh.