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Soviet Mega-Architecture!

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Soviet cogitations: 1445
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 24 Mar 2003, 19:17
Unperson
Post 23 May 2004, 01:21
On main points in Moscow, on its seven hills, where churches stood before Revolution, there was to be constructed buildings of tremendous complexness and size, using latest technologies and materials. But (thanks to that old fool Khrushev) only most primitive were constructed. Here's the map. Red are the buildings that were finished, grey are unfinished buildings.

Now, what these buildings were?

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Here's one of seven "Stalin's Vysotka" buildings which were constructed in Moscow, just to have something to compare really interesting projects with you will see later.

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In 1934 (market was abolished in 1929, all trade and unauthorised monetary exchange was banned, direct planning was in place), Soviets needed building to make research and coordinate technical control of Heavy Machinery Construction. In other words, on making building which will help them to devise, build and use large-scale industrial and military machinery and technology.

This was going to be called People's Commissariat (direct planning organ in Stalin's USSR) of Heavy Machinery Construction, in Russian - Narkomtyazhmash, or Narodny Komissariat Tyazhologo Mashinostroyeniya - NKTM. Of course, the main technological control nexus was going to be placed on Red Square!

There was three main projects. Each one is larger than the previous. First one is by Vesnin brothers, second one is by Fomin, third one is again by Vesning brothers.

Here's first NKTM project. It is large self-sufficient megastructure, made of four independant constructions, merged into single building by ordinary means, underground railways and skybridges. Sort of arcology, but with lots of statues of proletarian and engineering heroes and Soviet leaders.

It would made Red Square look like industrial construction yard.

Here's it is.

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Second one is by Fomin. It is more classic, but much larger. What you see on the picture is not the entire building, but just entrance. THE ENTIRE RED SQUARE WAS TO BE TURNED INTO NOTHING MORE THAN OPEN-AIR ENTRANCE HALL OF THIS MEGASTRUCTURE, REPRESENTING SOVIET HEAVY MACHINERY ENGINEERING (NKTM).

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Third one is again by Vesnin brothers. It is huge self-sufficient megastructure which included not only NKTM functions, but administrative, research and planning functions of many other branches of economy; requiring no resources to maintain (but requiring much resources to construct).

It is HUUUUUUUGE, and it was intentionally made to be so, to contrast with Kremlin. Just look at how pathetic Kremlin looks on this picture.

The Red Square on this picture is also re-organised, specially for tank and air parades.

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Palace of Books. It was going to be placed on Pushkin square. It is large building, made for education.

It is too large for book shop or library, even if it is used by all Moscow region simulatiously.

So, it is more of "reading house", so that people have a place to find a good book (like in library), read it in nice calm atmosphere (with lots of services inside the building), and discuss it with friends in "discussion rooms" and cafeterias. Structure also included several cinema halls and screens.

By that time Soviet Union had already earned honor of being the most literate and "book-reading" country (meaning is that Soviet citizens read books much more often, than any other people on Earth), so construction of such buildings was long awaited.

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Here's project of high-tech and high-quality housing by Chechulin. It was designed to provide maximum comfortability of living and maximum conservation of energy (it accumulated heat inside materials during warm periods, and used it in cold periods). It also had lots of living space and LARGE, comfortable rooms. And it is beautiful too.

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Palace of Labor by Vesnin brothers. Large center for administration of personel management, personel training and development of new labor techniques on scale of entire Soviet Union.

It is equipped with huge telescreens (for showing news and other stuff) and huge antennaes.

In other words, it is large information and control nexus. If NKTM is more "pre-planning" organ, Palace of Labor is "real-time control" organ.

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Soviet Palace. The largest building ever to be constructed. Even the finger of Lenin's statue is six meter in lengh!

Soviet Palace was to be center of Soviet Union, city-inside-a-city, it was to replace Kremlin (not geographically, but politically).

Just like in all projects listed here, Stalin intervened and make some interesting additions. So, thinking that largest and most "culturally-valuable" skyscraper buildings will in future be first target of bombings.

So, in end of 1936 year (that is 65 years before 11th September! Hell, Stalin was genius) Stalin demanded Soviet Palace to have intergral hidden flak cannon defence. 37mm cannons were going to be hidden inside head of Lenin's statue (!).

The bad thing is that Red Army didn't had such guns. They had technology, but that idiot Tukhachevsky intentionally rejected introduction of them, sticking to using 76mm howitzers for aerial self-defence. And you say that Stalin was wrong when shot Tukhachevsky? Because of Tukhachevsky nazis managed to succeed in blitzkrieg, by burning Soviet tank forces using dive bombers (which will be impossible with Soviet 37mm cannons).

Soviets decided to construct this megastructue on place of Russian Church of Christ The Saviour.

So, Soviet destroyed church with powerful explosion (which was quite a hard engineering task, because church was very massive) and made all preparations.

They created huge fundament (largest ever constructed) for this building instead of ruins of church.

of course, just like all buildings above, constructions of these were banned by anti-stalinist Khrushev.

But because fundament was very large, he filled it with water and made largest open swimming pool ever.

Later, after fall of Soviet Union, Russian Orthodox Christian Church decided to re-build Church of Christ the Saviour (like Russia have nothing better to do - hell, it took resources enough to make 300 Topol-M nuclear missiles). But it used old Soviet fundament! Now, expensive foreign-made cars of Russian priests are stored in large fundament under the church.

Well, look at picture. It is large, very large. Even statue of Lenin on top was to be largest statue on Earth.

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OK, here's my little contribution to discussion.

Comments?
Soviet cogitations: 593
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 26 Apr 2004, 13:28
Komsomol
Post 23 May 2004, 01:25
some very beautiful buildings there


Those buildings would attract people from all over the world to Moscow or whatever city they were placed in.

Andrew
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 9306
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 02 Mar 2004, 15:19
Ideology: Other Leftist
Old Bolshevik
Post 23 May 2004, 01:27
as much as I love Stalinist Architecture (and I really do, the city of Lyuban and Nezhvizh, and Minsk are all breathtaking).

It was a horrible waste of money, they were exaggerated, and required far too much for maintenance. The money should've spent on less spectacular but more effective interior policies.

but breathtaking none the less.
Image

Fitzy wrote:
Yes, because I am poisoning them. They are my children.
Soviet cogitations: 1445
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 24 Mar 2003, 19:17
Unperson
Post 23 May 2004, 01:43
You, idiot, how you can call yourself Communist?

WE DIDN'T USED MONETARY TRANSACTIONS BACK IN 30ies!!!

Money is function of scarcity, it is the basis of capitalism.

And if you didn't read my post, they do not require much maintance.

They can stay for ages without repair, just don't forget to wash the walls ever 30 years or so.

What a sick, demented vision of communism.

Money! Yuck!
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 9306
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 02 Mar 2004, 15:19
Ideology: Other Leftist
Old Bolshevik
Post 23 May 2004, 01:46
right........ but then how do you explain Stalin's statements in "Problems of Leninism" that people will be payed according to rank because this is still the socialist stage of production? or was a book printed by the Stalinist faction of the Norwegian communist party lying propaganda?

and it's architecturally impossible to have such little maintenance. or else it's the architect's folly.
Image

Fitzy wrote:
Yes, because I am poisoning them. They are my children.
Soviet cogitations: 180
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 23 Feb 2004, 02:21
Pioneer
Post 23 May 2004, 02:19
wheelchairman wrote:
right........ but then how do you explain Stalin's statements in "Problems of Leninism" that people will be payed according to rank because this is still the socialist stage of production? or was a book printed by the Stalinist faction of the Norwegian communist party lying propaganda?

and it's architecturally impossible to have such little maintenance. or else it's the architect's folly.



Mr Chairman must have forgotten that monetary value was never done away with in the USSR

So at that time, in the 30's..yes it would have been too expensive.
“Bourgeois-Nationalism and Proletarian-Internationalism are two implacably opposed slogans...”
- Vladimir Illyich Ulyanov (LENIN)
Image
Soviet cogitations: 1445
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 24 Mar 2003, 19:17
Unperson
Post 23 May 2004, 02:23
Look, do you know the difference between METHOD OF DISTRIBUTION and METHOD OF EXCHANGE???

Look, I don't believe you call yourself Marxist!

Name me Marx's list of FUNCTIONS OF MONEY. I remember them by heart. Do you?

And try to find distribution as immanent part of it. Distribution is part of economical process, it has nothing to do with money!


Quote:
"""and it's architecturally impossible to have such little maintenance. or else it's the architect's folly."""


I say as an engineer: the projects didn't require much maintance. All you need is cleaning. Such houses stand without heavy maintance for 50 years or so, and still in perfect condition.
Soviet cogitations: 1445
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 24 Mar 2003, 19:17
Unperson
Post 23 May 2004, 02:25
left opposition:

Check Marx's list of money functions and compare it to functions under 30ies.

It is limited-transferrable distribution tickets, not money.

If you don't know Marx's list of money functions (what Marxist are you, then?), I can put it here.
Soviet cogitations: 180
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 23 Feb 2004, 02:21
Pioneer
Post 23 May 2004, 02:26
Supreme Chairman wrote:
left opposition:

Check Marx's list of money functions and compare it to functions under 30ies.

It is limited-transferrable distribution tickets, not money.

If you don't know Marx's list of money functions (what Marxist are you, then?), I can put it here.




The soviet system still used paper money...
“Bourgeois-Nationalism and Proletarian-Internationalism are two implacably opposed slogans...”
- Vladimir Illyich Ulyanov (LENIN)
Image
Soviet cogitations: 1445
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 24 Mar 2003, 19:17
Unperson
Post 23 May 2004, 02:30
Did you read Marx's list? Where is anything about paper?

I mean, if it is not paper, but credit cards, it is still money.

But if it cannot be used for trade or commerce, it is not money.
Soviet cogitations: 180
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 23 Feb 2004, 02:21
Pioneer
Post 23 May 2004, 02:33
Supreme Chairman wrote:
Did you read Marx's list? Where is anything about paper?

I mean, if it is not paper, but credit cards, it is still money.

But if it cannot be used for trade or commerce, it is not money.



Are you trying to say that the Soviet Union didn't use money for trade?
“Bourgeois-Nationalism and Proletarian-Internationalism are two implacably opposed slogans...”
- Vladimir Illyich Ulyanov (LENIN)
Image
Soviet cogitations: 180
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 23 Feb 2004, 02:21
Pioneer
Post 23 May 2004, 02:39
Supreme Chairman wrote:
Did you read Marx's list? Where is anything about paper?

I mean, if it is not paper, but credit cards, it is still money.

But if it cannot be used for trade or commerce, it is not money.



I fully understand the concept of labor value and the abolishment of wages...
“Bourgeois-Nationalism and Proletarian-Internationalism are two implacably opposed slogans...”
- Vladimir Illyich Ulyanov (LENIN)
Image
Soviet cogitations: 288
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Mar 2003, 19:17
Komsomol
Post 23 May 2004, 04:19
I understand nothing, but i admit these buildings are incredible! I really wished they built the palace of soviets (That is the one with Lenin on top, Right?).
Soviet cogitations: 77
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 02 May 2004, 07:42
Pioneer
Post 23 May 2004, 05:06
Beatiful to look at, but a waste of resources nonetheless.
Soviet cogitations: 288
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Mar 2003, 19:17
Komsomol
Post 23 May 2004, 05:27
God, imagine if all of those where built! JUST IMAGINE HOW MOSCOW WOULD LOOK LIKE!!!
Soviet cogitations: 1445
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 24 Mar 2003, 19:17
Unperson
Post 23 May 2004, 05:41
Eurisko wrote:
Beatiful to look at, but a waste of resources nonetheless.


If creation of beautiful libraries, high-quality housing, job management centers, and engineering nexus is that what actually called WASTE OF RESOURCES, you are no longer my friend.
Soviet cogitations: 77
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 02 May 2004, 07:42
Pioneer
Post 23 May 2004, 05:55
You could have all that stuff in one of those monumental buildings, or way more of them, built faster and less resource-intensive, with the difference that they would not look that good.
Soviet cogitations: 1445
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 24 Mar 2003, 19:17
Unperson
Post 23 May 2004, 06:00
Eurisko wrote:
You could have all that stuff in one of those monumental buildings, or way more of them, built faster and less resource-intensive, with the difference that they would not look that good.



"""You could have all that stuff in one of those monumental buildings"""

That will be hard to access for most people - stupid move. You need library in place where people get books, etc.

"""or way more of them"""

The bigger the better. It is basic law. "Many small shops" are only good for monetary profit, in terms of real economy (i.e. work hours, resources, energy, time), they are idiocy.

If Stalin had advisors like you, we haven't been finished even first five-year plan by now.

"""built faster and less resource-intensive"""

This stuff are not quite resource-consuming if you check projects' data.
Soviet cogitations: 77
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 02 May 2004, 07:42
Pioneer
Post 23 May 2004, 06:07
Supreme Chairman wrote:
Eurisko wrote:
You could have all that stuff in one of those monumental buildings, or way more of them, built faster and less resource-intensive, with the difference that they would not look that good.



"""You could have all that stuff in one of those monumental buildings"""

That will be hard to access for most people - stupid move. You need library in place where people get books, etc.

"""or way more of them"""

The bigger the better. It is basic law. "Many small shops" are only good for monetary profit, in terms of real economy (i.e. work hours, resources, energy, time), they are idiocy.


El contradicto grande.
Also, the bigger the better is so wrong, many things are better the smaller they are, the whole world is moving toward making everything smaller. Man, you are the nanotech-guy here, you should know that.

I only wanted to say that 500 smaller libraries all across Russia would have been more intelligent than 1 huge-ass library in 1 place.
Soviet cogitations: 288
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Mar 2003, 19:17
Komsomol
Post 23 May 2004, 06:17
He sure has a point.
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