Soviet cogitations: 3872
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 12 Jun 2006, 02:14 Ideology: Marxism-Leninism Politburo
I'd like us to discuss what's our view on China. We've been talking a little about it in TLCTE, but we could have a serious discussion about it. For starters, I'll post an article we can discuss.
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I base my views of China mostly on observations of China-associated entities and businesses do in my country. Unfortunately, I can't say a lot of good things.
This is what China's scorched earth logging practices in Siberia look like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIBceep0oXc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XD9-SPT45Ss This is corrupt Russian bureaucrats selling off rural lands just 600 km east of Moscow in Chuvashia to Chinese investors for an agrobusiness without informing locals about it. The Chinese company reportedly had no plans to hire any locals, and instead was going to import workers from China (wtf?). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YisK-KYiMqI https://www.rferl.org/a/russian-village ... 83032.html This is (so far dormant at the official level) Chinese territorial demands against Russia, including media reports in PRC press claiming Lake Baikal is 'China's northern sea' after local residents made a stink about plans for a bottling plant. https://iz.ru/847637/evgeniia-priemskai ... rnym-morem Then there's the question of Chinese technology theft. US officials sound like 50s McCarthy-style loonies when they talk about Chinese technology theft and the 'Communist Party using TikTok' to steal Americans' precious data about lip-syncing and cat videos, but to some degree, they're right! Take Russian-Chinese weapons contracts. Every time the two countries reach some agreement on one of Russia's most advanced systems, China buys up a dozen or so pieces and that's it. A few years later, by magic, their own analogue appears. By comparison, India does not do this sort of thing, even when they establish joint-venture deals to build plants making Russian weapons in India, which is why the Indian weapons market has been far more lucrative for Russia. Some guy from a Russian think tank was complaining about this a few years ago: https://ria.ru/20180202/1513782444.html ... daynews3_1 Also, those claims by the Trump administration about China using technology to spy on Americans aren't so ridiculous. Here's a report from 2013 about a scandal in St. Petersburg after a party of electronics, ranging from cameras to irons and even electric tea kettles, equipped with microphones and wifi capabilities (!). I mean I'm sure the Americans are just mad that someone else is honing in on their plot to spy on the whole world, but the point still stands. I don't want my fragging tea kettle spying on me, so I have to buy an old Soviet one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUSgFgo2Yls ... Sorry if this all sounds kind of random and incomplete; it is. I just threw it together based on some 'issues' I remember having with China off the top of my head. But seriously China doesn't sound like any kind of model of socialism to me. I mean I know why the Western propagandists like to call it capitalist - so they can say 'see socialism didn't work so they had to switch to capitalism'. But From what I've seen the Chinese are capitalists and imperialists. They exploit their own workers in horrific factory conditions and through technological control, exploit people in other countries they invest in (standard operating practice for capitalists), and they have recently started territorial disputes with other countries which clearly can't be just swept under the rug, like South China Sea. I mean for God's sake they've driven the Vietnamese into the arms of the US, the same people who were basically exterminating them by mass bombing just 45 years ago. That kind of thing has to count for something. "The thing about capitalism is that it sounds awful on paper and is horrendous in practice. Communism sounds wonderful on paper and when it was put into practice it was done pretty well for what they had to work with." -MiG
It does seem like Chinese business is too greedy, and its business model often relies on importing Chinese labor to the countries where it works, although not all. For Russia I haven't seen any concrete proof of this, though. For example with the Chuvashia thing I'm now convinced that it's 100% American propaganda to sow discord.
From what I have seen in Tambov, basically no agribusiness improves conditions for local people, whether Russian, Dutch, Polish, whatever. This is mostly because of how it works - it increases efficiency and displaces people who were originally there because fewer people are needed to do work than before. So while before they could simply work at the collective farm or lease land to grow potatoes, now they have to compete with large distribution networks or just leave the area and work in a different industry. Obviously if you are not some old person living off pension then it sucks, but that's the price of modern convenience. I rarely go to the local market nowadays because it's easier and cheaper to just go to Lenta once every 2 weeks and get everything at once, so all the meat I get is through their suppliers, same with berries, fruit, vegetables, etc. I don't really understand how the Armenian and Azerbaijani suppliers keep working independently with so much competition, but to their credit, in the early part of the season, their seasonal produce is of much higher quality and cheaper than in stores, after that vkusvill and Lenta more or less match what they have,except very niche things like raspberries. So it does seem like the Chinese completely failed to work with the local people to promote their project, which Americans or Europeans would do, of course possibly because they had something sinister in mind, but I'd like to see evidence of that and not speculation. This is not to say that the Chinese are all do gooders either, the tourism racket is completely unacceptable the way its run today, and if it's an indication of how they run other private businesses, then that's really bad. ![]() "Bleh, i don't even know what i'm arguing for. What a stupid rant. Disregard what i wrote." - Loz "Every time is gyros time" - Stalinista
This is indeed an under-discussed and under-appreciated topic on the left. Far from being an expert on China, my optimistic nature wants to put my faith and hope in the PRC. The international left needs a super-power to lean on; and what better place than in a country run by a communist party? I don’t think China has crossed the point of no return in terms of its adopting capitalist economics, and shouldn’t be cast aside as such.
I once said here that as a communist, I wouldn’t mind beating the capitalist at his own game, so China ‘exploiting’ other capitalist countries, including Russia, doesn’t necessarily make me sad. The way I see it, Russia needs to get its shit together in terms of toning down the free rein its capitalist enterprises have over the nation’s resources, rather than China having to put on the brakes on its so called ‘imperialism’. However, as an environmentalist and a great lover of nature, the destruction of Russia’s forests is something that deeply worries me. It’s something that should definitely be investigated further. The wanton destruction of our forests for economic gain, be it socialist or capitalist, is unacceptable. I’ve been recently following the works of Yanis Varoufakis, Greece’s former finance minister, and I like what I’ve been hearing from him in regards to his direct dealings with the Chinese. Yanis Varoufakis on Chinese ‘Imperialism’ ![]() The great art of life is sensation, to feel that you exist, even in pain.
I tend to take a critical view of the PRC , especially given such civil rights issues as these . https://international.thenewslens.com/article/111336 , https://thediplomat.com/2018/10/no-place-for-real-marxists-in-communist-china/ , https://www.npr.org/2018/11/21/669509554/in-china-the-communist-partys-latest-unlikely-target-young-marxists , https://monthlyreview.org/commentary/on-december-24-2004-maoists-in-china-get-three-year-prison-sentences-for-leafleting/ I do not consider the PRC to be capitalist or socialist , in the conventional sense . https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/08/24/socialist-or-capitalist-what-is-chinas-model-exactly/ , https://bigthink.com/politics-current-affairs/what-is-socialism-like-in-china?rebelltitem=5 Some might even regard its economy as being corporatist , as these articles , from surprising sources , points out approvingly . https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2020/02/the-century-of-chinese-corporatism/ , https://dailycaller.com/2020/02/10/corporatism-solidarity-china-thrives-america-suffers/
As always, thanks for providing some interesting food for thought with those articles Jason.
![]() The great art of life is sensation, to feel that you exist, even in pain. |
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