Middlesex University meeting, organised by Middlesex University UCU, Thursday 19th May 2016,
What does the EU Referendum Mean for Workers and the Higher Education sector? A debate between Dr Marina Prentoulis of Another Europe is Possible and Will Podmore of Vote Leave. Quote: The world is riven by class — not race, gender, age or disability. There is only one human race, and any ideas that promote divisions between us do the work of capitalism.
https://www.change.org/p/jeremy-corbyn- ... ng-classes
Petitioning Leader of Labour Party Jeremy Corbyn MP Vote with your conscience - the EU is a coup against democracy and the working classes ![]() The world is riven by class — not race, gender, age or disability. There is only one human race, and any ideas that promote divisions between us do the work of capitalism.
Goodbye Cameron, you scumbag bourgeois pig. As for the EU, is this the beginning of the end?
![]() The great art of life is sensation, to feel that you exist, even in pain.
I feel sick.
Now what is this…
It is a tribute to the courage and independence of mind of the British working class,
The world is riven by class — not race, gender, age or disability. There is only one human race, and any ideas that promote divisions between us do the work of capitalism.
http://player.vimeo.com/video/170622277
http://www.tuaeu.co.uk/the-eu-all-kratos-no-demos/ https://indefenceofyouthwork.com/2016/0 ... -nicholls/ The world is riven by class — not race, gender, age or disability. There is only one human race, and any ideas that promote divisions between us do the work of capitalism.
Soviet cogitations: 12389
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 18 Apr 2010, 04:44 Ideology: None Philosophized
I honestly haven't made up my mind how I feel about this. Instinctively, anything that thwarts the will of Merkel and her fellow austerity ghouls can't be that bad. On the other hand, doesn't this set the stage for yet another showdown between Britain of the seas and Germany of the land?
It's amazing how much the world situation is resetting itself to 1914, and this seems like yet another tolling of that bell. Miss Strangelove: "You feed giants laxatives so goblins can mine their poop before the gnomes get to it."
Fantastic news.
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I don't really have an opinion on this.
We'll see how it ends up though. Frau Merkel may punish the Brits so hard others will think twice before doing something similar, and it may be just the wind to the sails of the more pro-centralist Europeans.
Soviet cogitations: 12389
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 18 Apr 2010, 04:44 Ideology: None Philosophized Loz wrote: At least this time they'll be the Central Powers. Again. Instead of the Axis. Again. Would Benelux and Italy really side with Germany? France? The lesser states from the Wrong Side Of The Tracks would have to choose as well. A few might go over to Vladi. Miss Strangelove: "You feed giants laxatives so goblins can mine their poop before the gnomes get to it."
TBH i don't know. But economy dictates that they should. Otherwise it's gonna turn out ugly for everyone.
Anyway i don't think Germany has even been this powerful in its entire history, despite having not having an army anymore. Though i doubt anyone will go to Vladimir because Russia's economy is crap ( the size of Italy, just for perspective ) and still failing. Russia can barely support its quasi-republics in Eastern Ukraine. Even Belarus which is in a union with Russia is coming closer to the EU.
Soviet cogitations: 1078
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Sep 2013, 03:08 Ideology: Trotskyism Party Member
Now let's see if this has the cascade effect throughout Europe its supporters hope for, or if it's just going to strengthen Germany's hold in the continent by removing the main pressure against it while bringing slash-and-burn Thatcherites like Johnson to power in the UK.
Also, if the cascade effect does occur, let's see if the Syriza/Podemos left can seize this or if it continues its rightward trajectory to outright fascists taking front and center in places like France. Because I'd hope we can all agree, as bad as the austerity-ghoul anti-democratic Eurocrats are, they are not Front National. All in all, I give this maybe a 1 in 4 chance of having been a good idea. Maybe. If Corbyn had the courage to take front and center and seize the issue from the right, more like 50% because then it just depends on whether other countries follow suit. But I really don't blame him for not risking playing useful idiot for Johnson and UKIP.
Soviet cogitations: 12389
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 18 Apr 2010, 04:44 Ideology: None Philosophized
According to Fox News, a weaker British pound is immediately compensated for by American tourist dollars, equating to Business As Usual.
Meanwhile, Scotland and Northern Ireland voted to stay, which wasn't exactly unpredictable. I have to agree with Loz that an EU with Frau Merkel at the helm and no serious opposition from Britain is a wet dream come true for the Germans - the ultimate "bloodless coup." So we have Britain gearing up for economic war against Germany, with France, Benelux, and Italy in the balance. Meanwhile, Russia remains the wild card to the East. We've seen this movie before. Miss Strangelove: "You feed giants laxatives so goblins can mine their poop before the gnomes get to it."
Soviet cogitations: 1078
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Sep 2013, 03:08 Ideology: Trotskyism Party Member
For the record, while giving power to/emboldening Thatcherists and (in the continent) worse has been a concern of mine, the main reason I would have voted "remain" if I were British is exactly the fact that this stands a really good chance of just solidifying the Eurocrats' hold on the continent. You no longer have the British bourgeoisie clashing with the German bourgeoisie, keeping each-other to some small degree in check. Instead, letting the British ones run roughshod over their population and the German ones run roughshod over continental Europe.
Soviet cogitations: 12389
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 18 Apr 2010, 04:44 Ideology: None Philosophized
It also gives extra fuel to the secessionist movements in Scotland and Northern Ireland. It would be terrible to see a resumption of IRA violence and a new era of Scottish secessionist extremism. That's the last thing that island needs.
Meanwhile, it would give Merkel and co. a Schadenfreude-gasm as well as a possible excuse for sanctions and even "UN-led intervention." Talk abut ripping off the kid gloves. Miss Strangelove: "You feed giants laxatives so goblins can mine their poop before the gnomes get to it."
Soviet cogitations: 1078
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Sep 2013, 03:08 Ideology: Trotskyism Party Member Comrade Gulper wrote: Disagreed there. The only clear-cut redeeming feature of this is Scotland's motion to leave and become its own Norway-style social democracy thing. It's a minor blow to imperial organs like the Commonwealth and to London's financial power, but still a blow. And it frees the Scottish people from ever having to deal with a Tory government again. The demographics in Ireland are also such that there'll probably be majority support for unity in 20 years time or so. Even without it, again a blow to said nasties. Quote: Scottish secessionists have been pretty non-violent, I don't think you could get an excuse for intervention with them. Maybe pissed off Glaswegians drunkenly rioting if their overwhelming referendum demand isn't met, in which case, I can't say I blame them considering literally every county in Scotland voted "remain." If Sinn Fein's demand for a referendum in Northern Ireland aren't met, there you might see renewed IRA activity.
Are you 'remain' Eurocrats for real? Didn't like all of the UK's many communist parties support Brexit? I can't believe I'm reading this on the Stalinist hub of the internet.
For the record (some of the smaller parties haven't yet released statements, but most of them too apart from one seem to have issued pamphlets in favor of leaving): http://www.communist-party.org.uk/brita ... -axis.html http://www.cpbml.org.uk/news/britain-shakes-world https://yclbritain.wordpress.com/2016/0 ... on-brexit/ MissStrangelove wrote: Sorry MissStrangelove, but as in the Trump thread(s) I can't agree to that. As a Russian, given the terrible civil war in fraternal Ukraine, inspired by Washington and Brussels, I just can't agree that a Hollande (who dares call himself a 'socialist' btw!) is less bad than Le Pen, who has publicly blamed the EU for the crisis in Ukraine. I'd probably be thinking the same thing if I was from the Middle East, given Le Pen's thinking on the Western-sponsored/inspired conflicts there: http://newobserveronline.com/us-british ... en-oxford/ All in all, domestic politics is important, but as an outsider, if the choice is between Trump/Clinton or Front National/smooth-talking mass-murdering Eurocrats, I'm for the unknown quantity that doesn't have the blood of hundreds of thousands of innocents on their hands. "The thing about capitalism is that it sounds awful on paper and is horrendous in practice. Communism sounds wonderful on paper and when it was put into practice it was done pretty well for what they had to work with." -MiG
Soviet cogitations: 1078
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Sep 2013, 03:08 Ideology: Trotskyism Party Member soviet78 wrote: I read the CPGB(ML)'s pamphlets on the issue. I disagreed with them, they struck me as short-sighted. Giving the austerity ghouls a black eye is something any leftist can support, but not if it comes at the expense of strengthening Germany on the continent and giving the reins of power to Thatcherites at home. In that case, it's entirely self-defeating, just empowering austerity ghouls in their respective spheres and taking away what made their interests clash. Strengthening both. Quote: You keep framing this as a "domestic policy" vs. "foreign policy" thing. What the leadership in Russia cares about is not the be all and end all of "foreign policy," it's simply one clique of national elites' interest. Among many. We've gone over the Trump issue, I see literally no evidence that he is in any way more anti-imperialist than Clinton. Considering the fact that he attacked the Obama administration for not doing enough quickly enough on Libya (Clinton backed the administration's still-horrendous-but-less policy), said in March that he wants boots on the ground in Iraq before reversing himself the next day and still airing the idea of "tactical nukes" there (Clinton endorses a still-horrendous-but-less no-fly-zone), and wants to tear up the Iran deal (Clinton begrudgingly accepted the administration's stance), actually I see the opposite. Meanwhile his unpredictability makes him harder to plan against, as any game theorist or military strategist will tell you. Telesur (full disclosure: technically my employers right now) are terrified of the idea of a Trump presidency, and PressTV has been vehemently anti-Trump as well while (rightly) maintaining criticism of Clinton. Even RT has been hedging lately, though it is slightly more anti-Clinton than anti-Trump. Marine Le Pen actually opposes neoliberalism. Okay, great, cool beans. Considering Jean Marie Le Pen is a literal honest-to-god no-neo-attached Nazi and Marine amounts to a whitewashing, "clean cut" version of daddy's views (akin to BNP or David Duke's recent failed attempt at mainstreaming and actually inspiring them), I have every reason to assume what she wants is actually worse. The austerity ghouls should be fought tooth and nail, and are still preferable to blood-and-soil reactionary revanchists. I don't agree in the slightest with "first brown then red," and the reds who supported it were hauled to the camps like all the rest. Also what in the hell are you doing linking a racist rag like The New Observer? If you look at their front page, it is literally article upon article of "we need to keep out the nonwhites." A cursory google search shows their biggest cross-linker is The Daily Stormer, a Nazi website. Last edited by MissStrangelove on 28 Jun 2016, 03:56, edited 3 times in total.
Soviet cogitations: 12389
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 18 Apr 2010, 04:44 Ideology: None Philosophized
My main concern with Brexit is the impetus for instability that it gives to the UK, i.e., seeing the island erupt into civil war while at the same time giving an excellent excuse to start clearing out pesky minorities.
If you think instability in the Middle East gives the American defense industry a money grubbing erection, wait until the UK erupts into sectarian violence. We'll never leave there thanks to the excuse of "liberating the mother country." Alexander of Macedon used the same excuse to conquer the Greek city states that were the mother country to his own empire. Meanwhile, an EU led by Frau Merkel is a step away from an openly oligarchic police state which is, in turn, opposed by the Russians and Chinese, which in their turn oppose Uncle Sam. It's the prelude to an interesting series of new alliances or an all-out clusterfrag. Miss Strangelove: "You feed giants laxatives so goblins can mine their poop before the gnomes get to it."
Kudos to Soviet78 for what he wrote in this thread!
And this is the level of debate people in the West are used to... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZO9JGSScMQ |
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