What are your beliefs about the nature of God?

Dagoth Ur wrote:

Assalamu alaikum brother WtB.

Mashallah!

There are plenty of places where Islam and Bolshevism intersect (anti-racism, humanism, anti-poverty themes, etc.). More to the point the form of any religion is part of its particular superstructure, and its base. Muslim workers will be integral to worldwide revolution.

Also Quranism is a laudable sect. I follow the Sufi. Don't listen to Order's anti-theism either.

Alaikum salaam comrade

I have to say I'm not entirely surprised by the aggressive behaviour certain liberals expose towards Islam. More often than I'd care to admit the veil of atheism has been used to justify an islamophobic attitude that is not any less extreme that that expoused by neoconservative nutjobs in the US for example. And while such extreme "new atheists" claim to be consistently anti-theistic, I know of none that is as radically anti-christian or anti-jewisg as they are anti-islamic. Islamophobia is fashionable nowadays.

Anyway, I wouldn't say Islam has much of an influence on my being a Communist. After all, I've been a Communist for years, while my official conversion to Islam is only a few months old. But indeed, of all major faiths I find Islam to be the one with the most egalitarian message. Unfortunately, it is also one of the most distorted faiths of all religions in the world. Hence my adherence to Quranism and my distrust towards the Hadith.

It is my hope that the Muslim working class will be brought in touch with Marxism, as the masses in the islamic world have great potential for the future, but are too often pushed down by backward takfiri interpretations, mainly wahhabism and salafism. If that yoke is thrown off and the message of the Prophet as it was originally is heard, there will be great potential indeed. Most important right now is that we breach this nonsensical barrier that seems to exist between Socialism and religion itself.

By the way, I had no idea you had converted as well. I've been registered on S-E for some years now, and I've often seen your writings here. Nice surprise to find out

Comrade Gulper wrote:

Just because you don't care to be a "liberal" anymore doesn't mean you need to move to the extremest possible fringe.

If you possess basic empathy for your fellow human beings, you don't need superstition.

If you lack basic empathy for your fellow human beings, no amount of rigorous observance of rituals and 7th century cosplay is going to generate it in you.

Empathy for human beings is what drove me to Communism in the first place, mate.
My religious preference has little to do with "finding a reason to have empathy", but with finding a meaning behind existance itself.

Wakizashi the Bolshevik wrote:

Empathy for human beings is what drove me to Communism in the first place, mate.
My religious preference has little to do with "finding a reason to have empathy", but with finding a meaning behind existance itself.

You won't find it in the 7th century. It was not to be found in an age of Aristotelian physics, slavery, and military conquest.

Comrade Gulper wrote:

You won't find it in the 7th century. It was not to be found in an age of Aristotelian physics, slavery, and military conquest.

I don't know what your obsession is with the "7th century" description. I don't recall mentioning anything about 7th-century politics or economics that I found worthy of support. Now you're just trolling.

Wakizashi the Bolshevik wrote:

I don't know what your obsession is with the "7th century" description.

I'm the guy who enjoys having 14 additional centuries of human progress to draw upon. Fundamentalist Muslims are the guys who'd prefer to erase it all and return to a state of Aristotelian physics, wife beating, and endless land thievery. Do you really want to live in that world?

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I don't recall mentioning anything about 7th-century politics or economics that I found worthy of support.

In which case, why not just be a human being who supports progressive policies in politics, ethics, and culture? Why do you need a god to tell you you're doing right?

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Now you're just trolling.

I may be sarcastic concerning this imaginary sky god of yours, but it isn't to troll you.

Order is clearly trolling. Please don't feed him.

Wakizashi the Bolshevik wrote:

I have to say I'm not entirely surprised by the aggressive behaviour certain liberals expose towards Islam. More often than I'd care to admit the veil of atheism has been used to justify an islamophobic attitude that is not any less extreme that that expoused by neoconservative nutjobs in the US for example. And while such extreme "new atheists" claim to be consistently anti-theistic, I know of none that is as radically anti-christian or anti-jewisg as they are anti-islamic. Islamophobia is fashionable nowadays.

Anti-theism enjoys quite a lot of popularity these days (mostly due to the heavy-handedness of many theists) so it isn't surprising that chauvinists and bigots would choose to shroud their unpolular views in a "rational" cloth. Much like how misogynists use the cover of "rationally" opposing radical feminism and "gender-fluidity" to cover their chauvinism.

Wakizashi the Bolshevik wrote:

Anyway, I wouldn't say Islam has much of an influence on my being a Communist. After all, I've been a Communist for years, while my official conversion to Islam is only a few months old. But indeed, of all major faiths I find Islam to be the one with the most egalitarian message. Unfortunately, it is also one of the most distorted faiths of all religions in the world. Hence my adherence to Quranism and my distrust towards the Hadith.

It is no more especially distorted than Christianity or Sikhism. The People themselves are hobbled by imperialism and so their faith reflects this and is likewise hobbled. The Hadith is not all bad either. The Messenger's commandmant to not kill those at your mercy who refuse to join Islam is from Hadith. I think the best course with the Sunnah and Hadith is to pick and choose, like every religion does with its legal codes.

Wakizashi the Bolshevik wrote:

It is my hope that the Muslim working class will be brought in touch with Marxism, as the masses in the islamic world have great potential for the future, but are too often pushed down by backward takfiri interpretations, mainly wahhabism and salafism. If that yoke is thrown off and the message of the Prophet as it was originally is heard, there will be great potential indeed. Most important right now is that we breach this nonsensical barrier that seems to exist between Socialism and religion itself.

As long as the region is infested with imperialists and their scheme this is basically impossible.

Wakizashi the Bolshevik wrote:

By the way, I had no idea you had converted as well. I've been registered on S-E for some years now, and I've often seen your writings here. Nice surprise to find out

Lol I thought everyone knew.

The bourgeoisie themselves have committed sins, although different from the 'sins they throw at us'. Do not use my name in vain- God. They use the name of God to propagate and champion capitalism. They are not sinless. "You can know one by his fruits (deeds) and by the words coming out of his mouth"- Bible. Nobody is a murderer here.

Gulpar, stfu, you are being an arse and you are referencing stuff he never mentioned and are assuming too much about what this particular Muslim comrade believes.

Comrade Jacob wrote:

Gulpar, stfu, you are being an arse and you are referencing stuff he never mentioned and are assuming too much about what this particular Muslim comrade believes.

Thanks. The fact of the matter is that no religion is true. Also, even "moderate" muslims believe in a whole lot of stuff that is flat out inimical to culture.

Iconoclasm kills art. Monotheism destroys religious freedom and variety of expression. Mandatory wearing of burkas and head cloths destroy freedom of self expression. Sharia law kills not only the free spirit of legal, but also ethical, inquiry.

Do you really want to live in a world where the Koran/Bible/Torah is the sole and final source of law? Does it really matter if the self appointed mullahs enforcing the law are "liberal" or "fundamentalist" in their views? Theocracy of any sort is bad news for freedom.

Show me a Muslim state that has even an indifferent record on basic human rights issues.

I'm not saying any of this to troll or insult anyone. I'm saying that theocracy and fundamentalism are things that are best left behind in the past. The future is before us and WE CAN DO BETTER.

The Renissance was done by Christians.

Dialectical materialism supports the view that there is NO God! I used to invoke the 'name of God" at every Filipino Communist Party meeting. I get scolded by Party members until I realized that belief in God is mere paranoia. No God. God is dead!
There is no such thing as 'afterlife'. I died so many times in my dreams. All I experienced were nightmares. Dying in your sleep is called 'bangungot' in Filipino. When you overeat and your tummy cannot melt your food, chances are you are going to die in your sleep and I died so many times.

Dagoth Ur wrote:

The Renissance was done by Christians.

You know shockingly little about the Renaissance. All of the great cathedral frescoes and statues were made by recovering Christians who were deliberately invoking the renewed spirit of Greek and Roman antiquity - to put it plainly, Christian exterior, pagan spirit.

You want REAL Christian art? It existed in the Middle Ages. Row upon row of derpy stick figures completely out of perspective with the background. THAT'S truly Christian - butchering art just as they butchered history, language, and literature.

lol you can shift the goal-posts all you like. If you asked them they'd call themselves christians.

Dagoth Ur wrote:

lol you can shift the goal-posts all you like. If you asked them they'd call themselves christians.

Of course they would. The Inquisition was still strong in the 1500's. It took 200 more years of the slow influence of rationalism to break that power. And here you are, wanting to give it all back to sharia law.

Shame on you.

Man I saw that response coming a mile away.

Dagoth Ur wrote:

Man I saw that response coming a mile away.

Edit: All right, my original response was a bit harsh.

We're never going to see eye to eye on this, are we?

No since you refuse to be reasonable and force your silly anti-theism onto forces unrelated to it. Not even the Soviets, the most agressively anti-clerical organization in History could hardly be called anti-theist. Even when those idiots at the LoMG were still rolling around being an embarrassment.

lev wrote:

Dialectical materialism supports the view that there is NO God! I used to invoke the 'name of God" at every Filipino Communist Party meeting. I get scolded by Party members until I realized that belief in God is mere paranoia. No God. God is dead!

There is no such thing as 'afterlife'. I died so many times in my dreams. All I experienced were nightmares. Dying in your sleep is called 'bangungot' in Filipino. When you overeat and your tummy cannot melt your food, chances are you are going to die in your sleep and I died so many times.

Dialectical materialism supports the view that there is no supernatural God.
No idea what dieing in your sleep has to do with anything m9
What one person calls God is very different to what another may call God. A material-god is a matter of perspective.

Once again, Gulper seems intent on twisting my words to fit his narrative. Your tirades are indeed applicable on "fundamentalist Muslims", mainly Salafists and Wahhabis. However, I dare you to find one singular speck of evidence that I ever claimed to support a fundamentalist branch of Islam or any form of takfiri ideology.

Wakizashi the Bolshevik wrote:

Once again, Gulper seems intent on twisting my words to fit his narrative. Your tirades are indeed applicable on "fundamentalist Muslims", mainly Salafists and Wahhabis. However, I dare you to find one singular speck of evidence that I ever claimed to support a fundamentalist branch of Islam or any form of takfiri ideology.

You don't need to be supporting any sort of theism. Even the most mild variety is still built on superstition, ignorance, and fear. Why can't you just let go of it? It won't do you any good once you're gone, since there's nothing there.

Bottom line: The study of religion yields valuable anthropological, cultural, and political insight.

The present practice of religion is valueless unless you're in it for kicks, and fully cognizant of that fact. Anything more than that and you're overrating it in a dangerous manner.