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Hollande's right turn

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Soviet cogitations: 589
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Dec 2013, 14:24
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Unperson
Post 27 Jan 2014, 11:10
Lets hope if they do take the streets, Hollande is a softer touch than the tyrant in the Ukraine!
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Soviet cogitations: 14448
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Sep 2006, 22:05
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 27 Jan 2014, 11:12
The evil tyrant who offered to dissolve the government and give the opposition the prime minister, and deputy, positions outright. What a hardass.
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Soviet cogitations: 589
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Dec 2013, 14:24
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Unperson
Post 27 Jan 2014, 11:44
Yes, that’s the one. He knows the games up so he is offering the workers concessions to save his own skin and his wealth.
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Soviet cogitations: 14448
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Sep 2006, 22:05
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 27 Jan 2014, 11:46
By "workers" you mean Bandera-banner carrying Right Sector Svoboda. Big surprise you support fascists.
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Soviet cogitations: 589
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Dec 2013, 14:24
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Unperson
Post 27 Jan 2014, 11:56
Let’s get back on topic, how should Hollande deal with any demonstrators against austerity? Should he invite the opposition to join his government or should he send the riot police in?
Or should he tell his police, look ask the protestors first, if they are left-wing don’t touch them! If they are right-wing the gloves are off!
Well I understand that asking them maybe difficult as they will probably lie if they know they will get a beating.

Riot police man: Are you a fascist?
Protestor: Erm...no,
Riot police man: Are you sure? (waves baton over his head), you are wearing a bandana.
Protestor: Definitely not! I‘m protesting against the cuts!
Riot police man: (shrugs) ok, carry on.
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Soviet cogitations: 2294
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Aug 2010, 14:21
Party Bureaucrat
Post 27 Jan 2014, 13:41
He should do nothing. He is good at that.
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"Fishing is part of agriculture" Gred
"Loz, you are like me" Yami
"I am one of the better read Marxists on this site" Gred
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Soviet cogitations: 589
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Dec 2013, 14:24
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Unperson
Post 27 Jan 2014, 14:05
He should stand by and do nothing if there are riots in Paris?
Soviet cogitations: 10005
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
Ideology: Trotskyism
Philosophized
Post 28 Jan 2014, 05:01
Either you're much cleverer than all of us and nobody understands what you're trying to say, or you're completely confused. I legitimately can't tell.

Do you know what "should" means? Why should we give advice to Hollande? What he should do is hand over power to the PCF now of course, but what's the point of this question? He won't do that, he'll do all the wrong things because that is his job and this is why he, or his successor, or that person's successor, will drown in the bloody waves of the revolution.
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
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Soviet cogitations: 2294
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Aug 2010, 14:21
Party Bureaucrat
Post 28 Jan 2014, 18:56
A demonstration isn't a riot. Your mind is so confused that you can't tell the difference between a demonstration and a riot.
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"Fishing is part of agriculture" Gred
"Loz, you are like me" Yami
"I am one of the better read Marxists on this site" Gred
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Soviet cogitations: 6211
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 04 Aug 2004, 20:49
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Embalmed
Post 29 Jan 2014, 11:39
But I just thought the PCF were just mealy-mouthed state-capitalists

Oh, of course, being just one rung higher on the ladder to socialism is of course a bad thing - you know, because existing in the real world is too difficult for our fellow - and we should all just sit about wishing for Kronstadt until certain hitches become quite apparent that it's simply never going to happen. We should deny these evil state-capitalists a chance to improve the working conditions, living standards and democratic representation of working people bothy politically, culturally, socially and economically.
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"Phil Spector is haunting Europe" -Dr. Karl H. Marx
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Soviet cogitations: 589
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Dec 2013, 14:24
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Unperson
Post 30 Jan 2014, 10:41
One of the greats can answer that question on state capitalism. He describes it as spurious, degenerate socialism. Now, who wants that? Not me. Who deserves that? Certainly not the workers of the World, who deserve so much better.

Friedrich Engels, in his book Socialism: Utopian and Scientific:

But of late, since Bismarck went in for State-ownership of industrial establishments, a kind of spurious Socialism has arisen, degenerating, now and again, into something of flunkyism, that without more ado declares all State-ownership, even of the Bismarkian sort, to be socialistic. Certainly, if the taking over by the State of the tobacco industry is socialistic, then Napoleon and Metternich must be numbered among the founders of Socialism.
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Soviet cogitations: 589
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Dec 2013, 14:24
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Unperson
Post 31 Jan 2014, 15:44
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_leg ... tion,_2012

He can’t hand over power to the PCF, they only got 6.9% of the vote as part of a left unity ticket.
He will do what any good ‘socialist’ will do in his situation; talk to the right.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25972302
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Soviet cogitations: 2294
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Aug 2010, 14:21
Party Bureaucrat
Post 01 Feb 2014, 11:34
11% at the presidential election, and now most probably all of those who were disappointed by Hollande.
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"Fishing is part of agriculture" Gred
"Loz, you are like me" Yami
"I am one of the better read Marxists on this site" Gred
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Soviet cogitations: 589
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Dec 2013, 14:24
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Unperson
Post 03 Feb 2014, 17:40
Forgive my arithmetic comrade, but 11% is NOT a majority.
Those disaffected by Hollande may turn to the conservatives and not the communists. Though there is little difference between either, one favours free-market capitalism the other state capitalism. The worker and the consumer lose out in both.
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Soviet cogitations: 2294
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Aug 2010, 14:21
Party Bureaucrat
Post 03 Feb 2014, 18:33
This is illogical. Why would a conservative be disaffected by a conservative u-turn?

So according to you communism favours "state capitalism", and communism is bad?
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"Fishing is part of agriculture" Gred
"Loz, you are like me" Yami
"I am one of the better read Marxists on this site" Gred
[+-]
Soviet cogitations: 589
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Dec 2013, 14:24
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Unperson
Post 03 Feb 2014, 23:43
OP-Bagration wrote:
This is illogical. Why would a conservative be disaffected by a conservative u-turn?

So according to you communism favours "state capitalism", and communism is bad?


I don't understand you, surely a conservative wouldbe disaffected by a conservative u-turn.


No, communism is not state capitalism but unfortunately every communist party believes in that and yes it is a very bad thing, probably worse than free-market capitalism as at least there you can f**k off to somewhere better.
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Soviet cogitations: 2294
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Aug 2010, 14:21
Party Bureaucrat
Post 04 Feb 2014, 00:10
Quote:
I don't understand you, surely a conservative wouldbe disaffected by a conservative u-turn.

Maybe you don't understand what a "conservative u-turn is"... A conservative u-turn is a u-turn in the direction of more conservative policies. Thus a conservative can't be disaffected (discontented) by a conservative u-turn.

Quote:
No, communism is not state capitalism but unfortunately every communist party believes in that and yes it is a very bad thing, probably worse than free-market capitalism as at least there you can f**k off to somewhere better.

I understand that according to you there is no much difference between capitalism and communism. That was a quite expected avowal.
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"Fishing is part of agriculture" Gred
"Loz, you are like me" Yami
"I am one of the better read Marxists on this site" Gred
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