Soviet-Empire.com U.S.S.R. and communism historical discussion.
[ Active ]
[ Login ]
Log-in to remove these advertisements.

PRC restores Chiang Kai-shek's house

POST REPLY
Soviet cogitations: 216
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 27 Jul 2013, 05:04
Ideology: Other Leftist
Pioneer
Post 29 Nov 2013, 16:27
Interesting news story regarding China’s decision to renovate the former house of Chiang Kai-shek.

http://www.france24.com/en/20131129-com ... ouse-image

What should we make of this story? Is this more evidence of the Communist Party’s rejection of socialism? Is it just a public relations effort to help improve relations with Taiwan with an eye to reunification? Perhaps a mix of the two?

What do comrades here think of this development?
Loz
[+-]
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 11879
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
Philosophized
Post 29 Nov 2013, 18:49
Perhaps it's just renovating a historical landmark, which birthplaces of famous people often are?
The West German government took good care of K. Marx's birth house for example.
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 6211
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 04 Aug 2004, 20:49
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Embalmed
Post 29 Nov 2013, 19:20
But that's different, as Marx is part and parcel of the tradition of the SPD and the entirety of German trade union movement that remains rightly enshrined in law as part of the decision-making process, it's not like they're so willing to keep Soviet memorials where they were first erected. Albertplatz in Dresden is an example where the memorial was moved to some museum or other up near the Soviet graveyard.
Image

"Phil Spector is haunting Europe" -Dr. Karl H. Marx
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 4458
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Oct 2004, 22:04
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Resident Soviet
Post 29 Nov 2013, 19:43
All in all I don't think it's a bad idea; it's a sign that the state feels its position sufficiently secure to allow for a somewhat more objective presentation of 'the other side' than was previously allowed. This generally is a sign of political maturity, and generally is designed to increase patriotism in a more politically inclusive sense than was previously possible, along with historical posterity. This can hold risks however, if improperly handled (i.e. if the rhetoric of historical revision goes to far). For this to be seriously problematic, it's necessary for it to coincide with a political, economic or other crisis, which is looks to be absent in the Chinese case.
"The thing about capitalism is that it sounds awful on paper and is horrendous in practice. Communism sounds wonderful on paper and when it was put into practice it was done pretty well for what they had to work with." -MiG
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 4465
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Mar 2010, 01:20
Ideology: None
Forum Commissar
Post 30 Nov 2013, 00:50
People demonstrate great enthusiasm when tearing down anything remotely associated with Communism and now we get this.

Piccolo wrote:
What do comrades here think of this development?
Somebody's trying to make some money from tourism and the Chinese "Communist" party doesn't even care about appearances. They keep using that word, but I don't think they know what it means.
Soviet cogitations: 12389
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 18 Apr 2010, 04:44
Ideology: None
Philosophized
Post 30 Nov 2013, 02:13
I'm very surprised they didn't tear it down aeons ago. I can see why they kept the Great Wall and the Forbidden City, but a mansion built on the bones of the peasant class? It should have been the first such structure to be dynamited.
Miss Strangelove: "You feed giants laxatives so goblins can mine their poop before the gnomes get to it."
Soviet cogitations: 10005
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
Ideology: Trotskyism
Philosophized
Post 30 Nov 2013, 05:19
Erichs_Pastry_Chef wrote:
it's not like they're so willing to keep Soviet memorials where they were first erected.


Vienna does that. Anti-communism is a much weaker tradition here though.
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 6211
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 04 Aug 2004, 20:49
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Embalmed
Post 30 Nov 2013, 13:23
It helped that there wasn't really any dickish move to completely polarise and solidify areas of occupation by either the Western or Soviet powers within occupied Austria.
I mean, Germany's current president is an absolutely vile anti-communist who on previous occasions has spoken of building a memorial to 300 gestapo officers who were executed by the Americans in Dortmund. He's utterly disgusting for also rejecting the Oder-Neisse Line. Apparently just a different culture between the two Germanic nations and how they look at the past. But I guess the Moscow Accordat that said Austria was the 1st victim of Nazism (lol!!!) helped the populist, fascist right like Haider.

Sorry for the link being in German, I guess me and Mabool can translate whatever bits anyone might want to know.
Image

"Phil Spector is haunting Europe" -Dr. Karl H. Marx
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 4458
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Oct 2004, 22:04
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Resident Soviet
Post 30 Nov 2013, 14:49
So your level of understanding of German has reached that high a level? Well done comrade!
"The thing about capitalism is that it sounds awful on paper and is horrendous in practice. Communism sounds wonderful on paper and when it was put into practice it was done pretty well for what they had to work with." -MiG
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 6211
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 04 Aug 2004, 20:49
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Embalmed
Post 30 Nov 2013, 17:13
I am still beyond hopeless at writing accurate German, it's just that my internalised English doesn't really regard grammatical categories consciously.
Image

"Phil Spector is haunting Europe" -Dr. Karl H. Marx
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 5155
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 08 Nov 2007, 06:31
Embalmed
Post 30 Nov 2013, 18:06
soviet78 wrote:
This generally is a sign of political thaw.


Fixed.
Image
Soviet cogitations: 10005
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
Ideology: Trotskyism
Philosophized
Post 30 Nov 2013, 18:36
Yes, being able to read indymedia is quite an accomplishment, it's probably more difficult than even a quality newspaper. I know I can't read Greek indymedia without having to look up words once a minute. I'm proud of you.
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 2298
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Aug 2010, 14:21
Party Bureaucrat
Post 30 Nov 2013, 22:21
That's not surprising. In Beginning of the Great Revival he isn't presented as a bad guy.
Image

"Fishing is part of agriculture" Gred
"Loz, you are like me" Yami
"I am one of the better read Marxists on this site" Gred
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 417
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 15 Nov 2012, 01:18
Komsomol
Post 01 Dec 2013, 04:08
There was a Chinese film directed by Jackie Chan in 2011 titled 1911, filmed to celebrate the 100th anniversary of the Xinghai revolution that founded the first Republic. So yeah they're starting to view their history objectively.

Image
Image
Soviet cogitations: 12389
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 18 Apr 2010, 04:44
Ideology: None
Philosophized
Post 01 Dec 2013, 04:30
sans-culotte wrote:
So yeah they're starting to view their history objectively.

Which is the best evidence yet that China has lost, or simply jettisoned, whatever revolutionary feeling truly remained after Mao's passing. I'm not asking for, much less in favor of, another "Cultural Revolution", but they could at least acknowledge that a great deal has been left undone. Instead, it just seems that they're content to "normalize" the past, and let history move alone at its own pace. China is growing old...again.
Miss Strangelove: "You feed giants laxatives so goblins can mine their poop before the gnomes get to it."
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 417
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 15 Nov 2012, 01:18
Komsomol
Post 01 Dec 2013, 04:40
Objectively, but not in an openly reactionary way, as the ruling class still legitimises itself as heir to the revolution. This probably won't last for long before they move to more neutral themes or even reactionary themes and start doing what Russian cinema does - beating it off to monarchs/emperors and such. It's a nice time for Chinese culture.
Image
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 2298
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Aug 2010, 14:21
Party Bureaucrat
Post 01 Dec 2013, 05:50
What are you speaking about? The 1911revolution is still a revolution, and moreover it was the revolution who brought revolutionary ideas in China, including Communist ideas, and Sun Yat-Sen's revolutionary principles. Sun Yat-Sen has always been greatly respected by Chinese communists.
Image

"Fishing is part of agriculture" Gred
"Loz, you are like me" Yami
"I am one of the better read Marxists on this site" Gred
[+-]
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 3618
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 22 Oct 2004, 15:15
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Politburo
Post 01 Dec 2013, 11:10
sans-culotte wrote:
There was a Chinese film directed by Jackie Chan in 2011 titled 1911, filmed to celebrate the 100th anniversary of the Xinghai revolution that founded the first Republic. So yeah they're starting to view their history objectively.


Is it any good? I've currently got The Founding of a Republic sitting on my external HD, waiting for me to watch it, and I'll also have to see these other films at some point. I think it's interesting to see what they make of 20th-century Chinese history now.

It is correct to say that the 1911 revolution and Sun Yat-sen have always been seen in a favourable light by the communists. I wonder, was this also the case during the Cultural Revolution? And how is Chiang seen on the mainland nowadays? I can imagine that the perception might have changed towards a kind of misguided nationalist instead of an out-and-out traitor.
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 4458
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Oct 2004, 22:04
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Resident Soviet
Post 01 Dec 2013, 13:10
Sans-Culotte wrote:
This probably won't last for long before they move to more neutral themes or even reactionary themes and start doing what Russian cinema does - beating it off to monarchs/emperors and such. It's a nice time for Chinese culture.


But remember, some of Soviet cinema's greats were also about the events and even the great personalities of the Czarist past. It's all a matter of degree (i.e. there could never be a sympathetic film about Nicholas II shot in the USSR). Granted, Chiang is in some ways the equivalent of Nicholas, in the sense that he was the direct predecessor to the communists. On the other hand however, he was part of the progressive revolution in China, as people here have mentioned.

The reason I commend the Chinese for doing this is that even though their revolution has not reached the age and level of social and economic development that the Soviets once achieved, their ability to create a new level of social and cultural openness without threatening the country's political status is commendable, compared to their Soviet counterpart. Whatever one says about Chinese revisionism and reversion to capitalism, as far as I'm concerned, as long as the CPC continues to govern the country, there will always be hope for a left turn in the future. All the institutions, power structures, and ideological justifications are in place for this to occur.
"The thing about capitalism is that it sounds awful on paper and is horrendous in practice. Communism sounds wonderful on paper and when it was put into practice it was done pretty well for what they had to work with." -MiG
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 417
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 15 Nov 2012, 01:18
Komsomol
Post 01 Dec 2013, 15:14
Quote:
What are you speaking about? The 1911revolution is still a revolution, and moreover it was the revolution who brought revolutionary ideas in China, including Communist ideas, and Sun Yat-Sen's revolutionary principles. Sun Yat-Sen has always been greatly respected by Chinese communists.

That's pretty much what I am speaking about.

Quote:
Is it any good?

Totally, an excellent film, even if the translation is hard to follow. But it may have improved since then.

Quote:
But remember, some of Soviet cinema's greats were also about the events and even the great personalities of the Czarist past.

It's modern cinema that makes s**t like "Admiral". Although I enjoyed "Death of the Empire" a bit.
Image
Alternative Display:
Mobile view
More Forums: The History Forum. The UK Politics Forum.
© 2000- Soviet-Empire.com. Privacy.