Up until the construction of the Berlin Wall, around three million East Germans left for West Germany, and I'm just wondering why was this?
Last edited by Szabo on 16 Feb 2011, 02:26, edited 1 time in total.
Now what is this…
I'm sure a generation's worth of nazi propaganda against 'judeo-bolshevism', championing of germany as the defender of europe from the 'asiatic' communists, and slander of slavs contributed it to it. German workers had been taught they had more in common with the traditionalist west then the radical revolutionary east.
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More/better commodity supply in the West.
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
Mabool wrote: This. The Intershops also contributed to that problem because DDR citizens had a view at the selection of goods offered and compared it to the goods shown in regular shops.
People with a problem with their past left the DDR,people who wanted more than everyone else,but,i must say,around 87-90 things were not so good.And if i may say,many of the people had some kind of a connection with the west (families,hometown,alot of things),thus making life harder.
East Germany was a dud as a socialist state since its inception and did a terrible job at earning proletarian support.
Quote: http://ml-review.ca/aml/PAPER/AUGUST200 ... a1953.html
We need to be fair here, the honest truth is that leaders in East Germany lived a much better lifestyle, had more material goods at their disposal and enjoyed more freedoms than the rest of the population. Margot Honecker regularly vacationed in Paris, while ordinary East Germans were prevented from travel to the West, except for West Berlin and even that after the construction of the Wall.
Party members and those with hard currency had access to special shops that offered high quality goods from the West, the rest of the population walked around with their "just in case" string bags hoping for a rare find like a banana or real chocolate. The problem with the above in a Socialist / Communist state is that it is a glaring hypocrisy to the fundamental basis of the society.
The gulf between the rulers and the commoners is much, much higher in capitalist society however. A Saudi princess recently rented 41 rooms all for herself in a luxury hotel and got away without paying a debt of 17 million Euro while homeless people are jailed for years for stealing from a grocery store. The Swazi king is one of the world's richest people while population under his rule goes barefoot and dies at the average age of 31.88 years from AIDS. About chocolate and bananas, you could buy them easily if you knew where to buy them. People had money to buy chocolate or bananas, you just had to find a shop that had some. It was a supply problem, not a poverty problem. And I don't know about the GDR, but at least in Czechoslovakia, I think chocolate (real chocolate) was one of the few non-fruit non-milk desserts that was not in shortage. I know at least that cocoa powder was higher quality than today, and I think much more available than coffee, which was kind of rare. Bananas only on May Day or Christmas, unless you lived in Bratislava or Prague or were willing to exchange some of your wage for hard currency coupons.
About "party members", only a few had higher living standards than the rest of the population. Every fifth person was in the party, so either the "ruling ellite" was generously big or you know, being in the party does not mean you are in the top echelons. About hard currency, every person could have it if he exchanged some of his money in the black market. The guys who did the exchanging were called veksláci in Czechoslovakia and usually were either clever young guys, or old ladies who recieved their pension in hard currency because they once lived and worked in the UK or other Western state. It was basically tolerated by the state.
The same reason they leave Mexico. I've always thought that if Ulbricht had played his cards right, he could have forced the West to build the wall. But Mexico can afford to lose excess workers; the GDR had no "unnecessary excess" of population. The deficit could have been made up with "guest workers" as in the West (from the socialist community, of course.) But again, Ulbricht's and the SED's nationalism got in the way. For the first 15 years or so of the GDR's existence it portrayed itself as the "state of the German working class," west *and* east, in the increasingly-utopian hope of a reunified socialist nation. To resolve the mass "desertion" would have required more imagination and craftiness (and independence, perhaps) than the SED's rulers possessed.
All was fair in the game of espionage. They were East German and Russian moles ran by Markus Wolfe. But they were easily indentified by West German intelligence. How? Haircuts! (No kidding)
bundtrock wrote: This is true, however it was only relative luxury. By international standards, the houses where the leadership lived were positively austere. Some consumer goods were difficult to obtain. Coffee, for instance, had to be purchased at the international market, rather than at advantageous prices from other Comecon countries. They tried to cut the costs of this by introducing a mix of real coffee and ersatz material. But of course you should never stand between a man and his coffee, and the reaction was such that real coffee was reintroduced soon after. Of course this was a bad situation compared to the luxury and freedom of choice most of us get today. However it should not be forgotten that the DDR was in a difficult situation and that it could not grow wealthy from exploiting the third world.
The average waiting time for an East German refugee who finished engineering in Berlin to land a job is 2-3 years. Much more for those who finished social sciences or non-engineering courses. Job security is shaky especially if you are suspected East German mole. If I were pragmatic, I would stay in East Germany and worm my way to high positions in the Communist Party. Jobless rate today in Germany is 8%. 60 million multiplied by .08 is 4 million, 800 thousand jobless. Having finished a social science course like most of us here, chances are we will end up as welfare recipients without hope of acquiring a job nor home. Belorussia is the only country today which is communist. My advice to you communists is to migrate to Belorussia.
The thing is, the low-level party/bureaucracy jobs (at least in the USSR) were basically hell on earth with endless paperwork and filing reports on party activities among the 18-25 y.o. male demographic or sending orders to city public works based on the directives of the city executive committee on the need for an additional sidewalk on Dzerzhinsky St. in the area of Gagarin St., for 50-60 hours a week. Once you get through, it gets better, but to do that there was a lot of networking/ass-licking to do. There was also the elected official route, but it was either not very important, like the Congress of People's Deputies which met for a few days once a year, or a city/region official for which again there was party competition.
Also, unemployment is generally determined by the formula (people actively seeking work) / (total employed + people actively seeking work), so it's not based on the total population which also includes populations like children, retirees and the disabled, who are unable to work and are not looking for any sort of employment. ![]() "Bleh, i don't even know what i'm arguing for. What a stupid rant. Disregard what i wrote." - Loz "Every time is gyros time" - Stalinista
There are a host of legitimat criticisms of the German Democratic Republic to be made. Many of them have been spelled out here (over-indulgence and luxeries going to the leadership, the Coffee shortage, utopian thinking ect).
However it started at a lower level of economic development and was forced to bear the burden of paying War repramands to the Soviet Union for the massive losses and damage inflicted on the USSR in WW2. These conditions were largely responsible for the less attractive aspects of life in the GDR: lower pay, longer hours, and fewer and poorer consumer goods compared to West Germany. The GDR comprised only one-third of German territory and had a population of 17 million. By comparison, the FRG comprised 63 million people and made up two-thirds of German territory. [1] Less industrialized than the West, the new GDR started out poorer than its new capitalist rival. Per capita income was about 27 percent lower than in the West. Despite all this however, "East Germany’s national income grew in real terms about two percent faster annually that the West German economy between 1961 and 1989." [3] It's possible to have high growth with it all going to the top of society however. Fortunately this didn't happen to the German Democratic Republic. The mean Gini coefficient – a measure of income equality which runs from 0 (perfect equality) to 1 (perfect inequality) – was 0.24 for socialist countries in 1970 compared to 0.48 for capitalist countries. [2] [1] John Green, “Looking back at life in the GDR,” The Morning Star (UK), October 7, 2009 [2] Shirley Ceresto, “Socialism, capitalism, and inequality,” The Insurgent Sociologist, Vol. XI, No. 2, Spring, 1982 [3] Austin Murphy, The Triumph of Evil: The Reality of the USA’s Cold War Victory, European Press Academic Publishing, 2000
Soviet cogitations: 260
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 16 Dec 2011, 00:54 Ideology: Marxism-Leninism Komsomol
oh man I havent read the morning star in years.
To be honest I dread to think what it has become. "A shiny bauble from Capitalism is worthless when the cost is Children & the Elderly going hungry, The Infirm & Sick dying because of Greed & Education reduced to a token few to placate the masses with Illusions of freedom."
I agree it's a highly revisionist newspaper by now. It's filled with Social Democrats, Revisionists and Greens now. I just went for the statistics.
Interesting info.
By the way, I think a paper like the Morning Star is an important asset. If the socialist and labour movement in the Netherlands had a daily paper controlled by the Communist Party, I would have no problem with it if they occasionally gave a platform to some horrible "revisionists" or whatever. The progressive role of social-democrats, greens, etc. as a whole is long played out, but individuals within these parties can sometimes say or do things that coincide with our interests. Those social-democrats, reformists, etc. who even bother engaging with a communist paper (they have plenty of careerist reasons to avoid communists like the plague!) are generally not people who woke up one day and decided to become evil revisionists. They tend to be people who should really be with us (and would be, "if only you guys were bigger"), but who have made a compromise on their own beliefs, wanting to "get things done" or whatever. But they can still be allies, fellow travellers, etc. What matters is that the paper gives a voice to those concretely involved in mass struggles every day, a voice which gets systematically ignored or slandered in other media. In Western Europe, including the UK, we are at a stage where the mere defence of the past gains of the working class is hard enough already. I can only imagine how useful it would be to have a paper that is present wherever working people are fighting for concrete material demands, offering a perspective of "peace and socialism" to them. |
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