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Do you support the North Korean government?

POST REPLY

.

Yes
12
36%
No
18
55%
Partly
2
6%
other
1
3%
 
Total votes : 33
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 1655
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 18 Jul 2011, 09:57
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Party Member
Post 24 May 2012, 18:58
Sources, then. Back it up.
I don't regret burning my bridges. I regret that some people weren't on those bridges when I burned them.
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Soviet cogitations: 2293
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Aug 2010, 14:21
Party Bureaucrat
Post 24 May 2012, 20:32
Quote:
I want to say that the North Korea is as marxist as WallStreet.

That's right, they are not Marxists anymore. But I don't agree with this religion which says that "socialism" is a very specific kind of state, the perfect transition to communism. This is only in you dreams, only in Marxist propaganda because in our propaganda we had to give hope. But this isn't marxist, this isn't materialist and dialectical. The path to Communism, if there is a path to communism, will be imperfect and terrible. North Korea is undoubtedly socialist, there is no private property of the means of production in this country. That's why they are quite a threat to imperialism. If that isn't socialism, what is socialism? Of course this isn't the socialist country we are dreaming about. But you already know Lenin's famous quotation: "Facts are stubborn things". I have no problem with that. I'm a marxist, they are not. I don't support everything they do, I can't accept many of the choices of their government. But I support North Korea against its enemies. If you really want to help the people in North Korea, I think that you should oppose above all the policy of South Korea's government because they are the main power. It was much better with the "Sunshine policy". Don't forget that North Korea and South Korea are still, officially, at war.
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"Fishing is part of agriculture" Gred
"Loz, you are like me" Yami
"I am one of the better read Marxists on this site" Gred
Soviet cogitations: 113
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 15 Jul 2009, 21:32
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Pioneer
Post 24 May 2012, 20:55
Voted yes, a little motivated by the nazi comparison.

I agree with OP. Despite its flaws, DPRK, at least in theory, is quite desirable than most of the countries today, I believe it's more benificial to do positive criticism and to support it rather than ignorantly attacking and comparing it to fascism.
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Soviet cogitations: 14444
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Sep 2006, 22:05
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 24 May 2012, 21:35
Voted yes and I totally agree with OP in this.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
Ideology: Trotskyism
Philosophized
Post 25 May 2012, 10:26
moonjosh wrote:
I Think North Korea is as same as the Nazis except the racism.
so I don't support the dprk at all.


The racism is the only thing they have in common with the Nazis.
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Oct 2009, 20:08
Resident Artist
Post 25 May 2012, 10:51
No, the DPRK, the Kim family and Juche all suck. They should drop the fake socialist charade because it's doing more harm than good to the concept socialism and communism because detractors would point to shitholes such as North Korea as an 'example' of a socialist state. If people risk their lives traversing through the Yalu River and many transit countries such as China, there's a problem with the country in respect to providing reasonable standards for their citizens.
Soviet cogitations: 91
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Dec 2011, 09:04
Pioneer
Post 25 May 2012, 13:01
Chthonic171 wrote:
Sources, then. Back it up.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workers%27_Party_of_Korea


The sources about the 2009 constitution appears on wikipedia and in addition it says
they already replaces their ideology in Marxism-Leninsim to juche in 1972.
and although in dosent appears on wikipedia but they fully abandoned marxism-leninism in 1992
and if you find some pictures of north korea in the 60s you cou see progpaganda phraising marxism-leninism
like "맑스 레닌주의 만세!(Long live the Marxism-Leninism) but in the 70s you could hardly find these.
And according to the defecters. The book about Marx was hard to find since the 70s.
You could only find the books written by Marx like "Das Kapital" in the "Grand Peoples Study House(인민대학습당)",the largest library in
North Korea. But most of them are written in the 1960s or earlier.
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Soviet cogitations: 716
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 04 Aug 2007, 23:25
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Komsomol
Post 28 May 2012, 19:35
Yes I do support them. Comparing the DPRK with fascism or nazism shows complete and utter ignorance as to the meaning and ideologies of both Juche and fascism.
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"Communism is more about love for mankind than about politics."
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Soviet cogitations: 1128
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Aug 2008, 18:12
Party Member
Post 28 May 2012, 23:55
No

I don't consider it to be a socialist country. The working class is not the ruling class. Instead, it has a ruling elite (often replenished through nepotism) who can be seen as more of a ruling caste (see songbun). Remember that nationalisation does not automatically mean socialism.

I think North Korea retains more feudal characteristics than socialist. An hereditary ruling elite and an absolute monarchy. Any pretence as Marxism was abandoned a long time ago.
[+-]
Soviet cogitations: 26
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 28 May 2012, 05:16
Pioneer
Post 30 May 2012, 04:42
We hear so much about how the people there are starving, how their own government does not care about them, how repressive and cruel the system supposedly is, closed, the 'Hermit Kingdom' and so on, but can any of these rumours (for that is all they are really) be substantiated, or even taken seriously? Has anyone here actually seen the evidence that would confirm the rumour that the people were, or are, starving for example? Whenever I see footage taken by a journalist from the West that was permitted to go there, I only ever see healthy, well-fed people (although I never see fat people - lack of access to 'McDonald's' perhaps?
).

Anyway, I voted 'yes' if only because any nation that causes such a headache for the plotters of world domination in the U.S. Government can't be all that bad.
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Soviet cogitations: 48
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 17 May 2012, 00:16
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Pioneer
Post 30 May 2012, 20:43
Why would i support a monarchy basically?
★I AM A PROGRESSIVE SOCIALIST IN FAVOR OF DEMOCRACY★"
☮★☭★☭☮ Pro Palestine, Pro Working class, Pro Union, Pro Progressive Tax, Pro Democracy, Pro Syndicalism, Pro Socialist
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Soviet cogitations: 2293
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Aug 2010, 14:21
Party Bureaucrat
Post 30 May 2012, 22:06
Monarchy isn't a mode of production.
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"Fishing is part of agriculture" Gred
"Loz, you are like me" Yami
"I am one of the better read Marxists on this site" Gred
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 08 Aug 2011, 22:59
Ideology: Other Leftist
Party Member
Post 30 May 2012, 22:19
Wakizashi the Bolshevik wrote:
Yes I do support them. Comparing the DPRK with fascism or nazism shows complete and utter ignorance as to the meaning and ideologies of both Juche and fascism.

Labelling comparers as ignoramuses shows utter ignorance of what the nation of North Korea could have achieved had they had the chance of electing a capable and responsible government instead.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Aug 2010, 14:21
Party Bureaucrat
Post 31 May 2012, 00:30
This statement is ridiculous and non-historical. North Korea was one of the biggest economic growth in the world until the collapse of the USSR. They had great achievements. If the government had been weak, socialism in North Korea may have fallen with the collapse of the USSR. No one can rewrite the past so roughly without being a pure philistine. Moreover, it seems that you believe that democracy in general is the Alpha and Omega of socialism, which is a petty bourgeois point of view. Socialism isn't about elections, but about class struggle.
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"Fishing is part of agriculture" Gred
"Loz, you are like me" Yami
"I am one of the better read Marxists on this site" Gred
Soviet cogitations: 91
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Dec 2011, 09:04
Pioneer
Post 31 May 2012, 09:04
OP-Bagration wrote:
This statement is ridiculous and non-historical. North Korea was one of the biggest economic growth in the world until the collapse of the USSR. They had great achievements. If the government had been weak, socialism in North Korea may have fallen with the collapse of the USSR. No one can rewrite the past so roughly without being a pure philistine. Moreover, it seems that you believe that democracy in general is the Alpha and Omega of socialism, which is a petty bourgeois point of view. Socialism isn't about elections, but about class struggle.



North Korea had a very high economic growth until the 60s but not after the 70s
in the 70s the growth rate was still above worlds average. And in the 80s the growh rate was similar to the soviet union.
north korean economic growth rate

1965:8.2
1969:8.6
1970:10.3
1974:5.4
1975:5.5
1976:4.6
1977:5.3
1980:3.8
1983:4.4
1984:3.9
1985:2.7
1986:2.1
1987:3.3
1988:3.0
1989:2.4
1990~1998:minus
1999~current:slow recovery

The north koreas gdp per capita in 1989 was $987
it was higher than China and most of the Asian countries but
5 times lower than South Korea($5418). They didn't starve like now in the 80s
but food rationing(700 grams of rice per day) still survived unlike the eastern europe.
and meat was avalible only in 2.16 and 4.15,10.10
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Soviet cogitations: 2293
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Aug 2010, 14:21
Party Bureaucrat
Post 31 May 2012, 15:22
Right, but UNDP's statistics would be more accurate. In 1995, half of South Korea's population had the same standard of living as the average North Korean citizen.
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"Fishing is part of agriculture" Gred
"Loz, you are like me" Yami
"I am one of the better read Marxists on this site" Gred
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Soviet cogitations: 238
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 12 Jun 2011, 15:14
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Pioneer
Post 31 May 2012, 17:45
Peter wrote:
Has anyone here actually seen the evidence that would confirm the rumour that the people were, or are, starving for example? Whenever I see footage taken by a journalist from the West that was permitted to go there, I only ever see healthy, well-fed people (although I never see fat people - lack of access to 'McDonald's' perhaps?
).

Pictures are worth more than words.
Image
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Soviet cogitations: 48
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 17 May 2012, 00:16
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Pioneer
Post 31 May 2012, 18:27
OP-Bagration wrote:
Monarchy isn't a mode of production.


Well they are certainly use nepotism in their government. But the state literally owns everything, under a corrupt nepotistic government,.
★I AM A PROGRESSIVE SOCIALIST IN FAVOR OF DEMOCRACY★"
☮★☭★☭☮ Pro Palestine, Pro Working class, Pro Union, Pro Progressive Tax, Pro Democracy, Pro Syndicalism, Pro Socialist
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Soviet cogitations: 3711
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Jul 2006, 04:49
Ideology: Juche
Old Bolshevik
Post 31 May 2012, 22:26
Yes, anything less is Shachtmanism in sheep's skin.

Quote:
Pictures are worth more than words.


Picture are worthless without context. This is the same bullshit tactic that Anti-Communists and "decent leftists" use.

Quote:
Already In 1992 they deleted the Marxism-Leninism substances in their WPK platform
and they deleted the communism substances on their constitution in 2009.
In the 1998 constitution their goals that are specified in their constitution was "Socialism and Communism"
But in 2009 constitution,they changed their goals to "Socialism and Songun"
It means that they gived up to build communism.

Actually they weren't a socialist country already in the 70s
whan they made Kim Jong Il the suceeder.
and they hardly used the word "marxism-leninism" since the mid 1970s
and thay stated to use the word "communism" very few times since the 1980s
they only use "socialism" today.


So North Korea isn't a socialist country because they (allegedly) that it is socialist instead of communist?

Quote:
I want to say that the North Korea is as marxist as WallStreet.


I want to say that you are doing the Imperialist's work for them.
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Soviet cogitations: 2293
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Aug 2010, 14:21
Party Bureaucrat
Post 01 Jun 2012, 01:19
Quote:
Pictures are worth more than words.

You should know that North-Koreans don't have dresses. And moreover, communists eat children, especially when they are starving. So these pictures are fakes.


Quote:
Well they are certainly use nepotism in their government. But the state literally owns everything, under a corrupt nepotistic government,.

The state, according to classical Marxism, isn't a class. It is only a tool in the hands of a class. The bureaucracy is a parasite, but the parasite doesn't determine the class nature of the state.

Imagine you see a hippopotamus. These animals have well-known parasites, birds, on them. Would you say that the animal is a hippopotamus, or a bird?

North Korea is obviously a hippopotamus.
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"Fishing is part of agriculture" Gred
"Loz, you are like me" Yami
"I am one of the better read Marxists on this site" Gred
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