Do you support the North Korean government?

Sources, then. Back it up.

Quote:

I want to say that the North Korea is as marxist as WallStreet.

That's right, they are not Marxists anymore. But I don't agree with this religion which says that "socialism" is a very specific kind of state, the perfect transition to communism. This is only in you dreams, only in Marxist propaganda because in our propaganda we had to give hope. But this isn't marxist, this isn't materialist and dialectical. The path to Communism, if there is a path to communism, will be imperfect and terrible. North Korea is undoubtedly socialist, there is no private property of the means of production in this country. That's why they are quite a threat to imperialism. If that isn't socialism, what is socialism? Of course this isn't the socialist country we are dreaming about. But you already know Lenin's famous quotation: "Facts are stubborn things". I have no problem with that. I'm a marxist, they are not. I don't support everything they do, I can't accept many of the choices of their government. But I support North Korea against its enemies. If you really want to help the people in North Korea, I think that you should oppose above all the policy of South Korea's government because they are the main power. It was much better with the "Sunshine policy". Don't forget that North Korea and South Korea are still, officially, at war.

Voted yes, a little motivated by the nazi comparison.

I agree with OP. Despite its flaws, DPRK, at least in theory, is quite desirable than most of the countries today, I believe it's more benificial to do positive criticism and to support it rather than ignorantly attacking and comparing it to fascism.

Voted yes and I totally agree with OP in this.

moonjosh wrote:

I Think North Korea is as same as the Nazis except the racism.
so I don't support the dprk at all.

The racism is the only thing they have in common with the Nazis.

No, the DPRK, the Kim family and Juche all suck. They should drop the fake socialist charade because it's doing more harm than good to the concept socialism and communism because detractors would point to shitholes such as North Korea as an 'example' of a socialist state. If people risk their lives traversing through the Yalu River and many transit countries such as China, there's a problem with the country in respect to providing reasonable standards for their citizens.

Chthonic171 wrote:

Sources, then. Back it up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workers%27_Party_of_Korea


The sources about the 2009 constitution appears on wikipedia and in addition it says
they already replaces their ideology in Marxism-Leninsim to juche in 1972.
and although in dosent appears on wikipedia but they fully abandoned marxism-leninism in 1992
and if you find some pictures of north korea in the 60s you cou see progpaganda phraising marxism-leninism
like "맑스 레닌주의 만세!(Long live the Marxism-Leninism) but in the 70s you could hardly find these.
And according to the defecters. The book about Marx was hard to find since the 70s.
You could only find the books written by Marx like "Das Kapital" in the "Grand Peoples Study House(인민대학습당)",the largest library in
North Korea. But most of them are written in the 1960s or earlier.

Yes I do support them. Comparing the DPRK with fascism or nazism shows complete and utter ignorance as to the meaning and ideologies of both Juche and fascism.

No

I don't consider it to be a socialist country. The working class is not the ruling class. Instead, it has a ruling elite (often replenished through nepotism) who can be seen as more of a ruling caste (see songbun). Remember that nationalisation does not automatically mean socialism.

I think North Korea retains more feudal characteristics than socialist. An hereditary ruling elite and an absolute monarchy. Any pretence as Marxism was abandoned a long time ago.

We hear so much about how the people there are starving, how their own government does not care about them, how repressive and cruel the system supposedly is, closed, the 'Hermit Kingdom' and so on, but can any of these rumours (for that is all they are really) be substantiated, or even taken seriously? Has anyone here actually seen the evidence that would confirm the rumour that the people were, or are, starving for example? Whenever I see footage taken by a journalist from the West that was permitted to go there, I only ever see healthy, well-fed people (although I never see fat people - lack of access to 'McDonald's' perhaps? ).

Anyway, I voted 'yes' if only because any nation that causes such a headache for the plotters of world domination in the U.S. Government can't be all that bad.

Why would i support a monarchy basically?

Monarchy isn't a mode of production.

Wakizashi the Bolshevik wrote:

Yes I do support them. Comparing the DPRK with fascism or nazism shows complete and utter ignorance as to the meaning and ideologies of both Juche and fascism.

Labelling comparers as ignoramuses shows utter ignorance of what the nation of North Korea could have achieved had they had the chance of electing a capable and responsible government instead.

This statement is ridiculous and non-historical. North Korea was one of the biggest economic growth in the world until the collapse of the USSR. They had great achievements. If the government had been weak, socialism in North Korea may have fallen with the collapse of the USSR. No one can rewrite the past so roughly without being a pure philistine. Moreover, it seems that you believe that democracy in general is the Alpha and Omega of socialism, which is a petty bourgeois point of view. Socialism isn't about elections, but about class struggle.

OP-Bagration wrote:

This statement is ridiculous and non-historical. North Korea was one of the biggest economic growth in the world until the collapse of the USSR. They had great achievements. If the government had been weak, socialism in North Korea may have fallen with the collapse of the USSR. No one can rewrite the past so roughly without being a pure philistine. Moreover, it seems that you believe that democracy in general is the Alpha and Omega of socialism, which is a petty bourgeois point of view. Socialism isn't about elections, but about class struggle.

North Korea had a very high economic growth until the 60s but not after the 70s
in the 70s the growth rate was still above worlds average. And in the 80s the growh rate was similar to the soviet union.
north korean economic growth rate

1965:8.2
1969:8.6
1970:10.3
1974:5.4
1975:5.5
1976:4.6
1977:5.3
1980:3.8
1983:4.4
1984:3.9
1985:2.7
1986:2.1
1987:3.3
1988:3.0
1989:2.4
1990~1998:minus
1999~current:slow recovery

The north koreas gdp per capita in 1989 was $987
it was higher than China and most of the Asian countries but
5 times lower than South Korea($5418). They didn't starve like now in the 80s
but food rationing(700 grams of rice per day) still survived unlike the eastern europe.
and meat was avalible only in 2.16 and 4.15,10.10

Right, but UNDP's statistics would be more accurate. In 1995, half of South Korea's population had the same standard of living as the average North Korean citizen.

Peter wrote:

Has anyone here actually seen the evidence that would confirm the rumour that the people were, or are, starving for example? Whenever I see footage taken by a journalist from the West that was permitted to go there, I only ever see healthy, well-fed people (although I never see fat people - lack of access to 'McDonald's' perhaps?

).

Pictures are worth more than words.

OP-Bagration wrote:

Monarchy isn't a mode of production.

Well they are certainly use nepotism in their government. But the state literally owns everything, under a corrupt nepotistic government,.

Yes, anything less is Shachtmanism in sheep's skin.

Quote:

Pictures are worth more than words.

Picture are worthless without context. This is the same bullshit tactic that Anti-Communists and "decent leftists" use.

Quote:

Already In 1992 they deleted the Marxism-Leninism substances in their WPK platform
and they deleted the communism substances on their constitution in 2009.
In the 1998 constitution their goals that are specified in their constitution was "Socialism and Communism"
But in 2009 constitution,they changed their goals to "Socialism and Songun"
It means that they gived up to build communism.

Actually they weren't a socialist country already in the 70s
whan they made Kim Jong Il the suceeder.
and they hardly used the word "marxism-leninism" since the mid 1970s
and thay stated to use the word "communism" very few times since the 1980s
they only use "socialism" today.

So North Korea isn't a socialist country because they (allegedly) that it is socialist instead of communist?

Quote:

I want to say that the North Korea is as marxist as WallStreet.

I want to say that you are doing the Imperialist's work for them.

Quote:

Pictures are worth more than words.

You should know that North-Koreans don't have dresses. And moreover, communists eat children, especially when they are starving. So these pictures are fakes.

Quote:

Well they are certainly use nepotism in their government. But the state literally owns everything, under a corrupt nepotistic government,.

The state, according to classical Marxism, isn't a class. It is only a tool in the hands of a class. The bureaucracy is a parasite, but the parasite doesn't determine the class nature of the state.

Imagine you see a hippopotamus. These animals have well-known parasites, birds, on them. Would you say that the animal is a hippopotamus, or a bird?

North Korea is obviously a hippopotamus.