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 23 May 2012, 18:14
A friend recently commented on how his recent flights from Nairobi and Maputo, 95% of the passengers were Chinese businessmen and they can apparently be seen in most African cities now driving the latest cars and working on building projects.
So basically, from its army bases to its cheap loans for infrastructure, do you consider China's ever-increasing role in Africa a good thing? Now what is this…
23 May 2012, 18:39
Building projects in Africa are definitely a good thing. I don't think they get a lot of them from Western investors.
24 May 2012, 01:27
So would you say that when the West does this sort of thing that it's Imperialism, but when the Chinese do it that it's philanthropy (or something)?
24 May 2012, 01:32
Yes, i guess.
China is extracting resources most of these African countries can't even use and which in return get investments, improving their economy and so on... 24 May 2012, 03:34
Something tells me that Mabool at least would consider of them both cases of philanthropy (or something).
 Forum Rules Red_Son: Bob Avakian is the Glenn Beck of communism. "Le prolétariat; c'est moi." - King Indigo XIV 
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 13 Feb 2008, 15:25 Ideology: Other Leftist Politburo 24 May 2012, 04:27
There are some key differences between how China deals with Africa and how the West deals with Africa. The latter is just the continuation of imperialist exploitation, but in its modern form. China's dealings with Africa could be called a form of imperialism (I am not so sure it is though) but at the very least, it is a different uniquely Chinese form and much more beneficial for the people of Africa.
Western investment into Africa is usually aimed at political and economic control, whereas China's goal I suspect is not only to procure resources it needs for its own economy but also developing independent and at least partially industrialised African economies. Think about it from China's perspective. With Western economies flagging and trade decreasing, China needs new nations to trade with and it could certainly benefit from having more allies. It makes sense for them to aid development in Africa and South America (we don't hear too much about Chinese investment in countries like Venezuela and Cuba, but it is increasing). Time may prove me wrong, but I don't think the Chinese goal is imperialist exploitation. I think they genuinely want to play a progressive role in the world. Many of the Chinese people I speak to say things like "Africa is our ally". They don't look down on it the way many Western people do. For further reference: http://africanboots.com/2010/11/china-in-africa-podcast-the-sino-u-s-soft-power-showdown/#more-452 http://www.pslweb.org/liberationnews/news/07-06-05-chinas-growing-role-in-africa.html 
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 20 Jul 2007, 06:59 Ideology: Marxism-Leninism Forum Commissar 24 May 2012, 13:43
As a materialist, I don't think it matters what this or that capitalist thinks or wants, just on what they can or can't achieve.
Chinese capitalists have economic power but can't apply political pressure yet, so they simply provide capital for now. This foreign investment is needed to develop resources and, well, to generate wealth pretty much, considering this is a capitalist system we're under. As it stands, it's an alternative supply of capital, one which breaks the monopoly that gave so much power to imperialist ambitions, so, seen that way, it suits the national African bourgeoisie nicely. If Africa needs more capitalism, or more exactly, more development, as provided by a stronger national bourgeosie, then good. (If the entire imbricated system has found another market to leech from, then, well, damn...but that's a huge can of worms, one which might be a bit off topic)  "It does not suffice to reject the error; we must overcome it, explain it and outgrow it." - Antonio Labriola Forum Rules 24 May 2012, 14:33
Imperialism is just international capitalism. Any capitalist development in Africa is a good thing.
The moment one accepts the notion of 'totalitarianism', one is firmly locked within the liberal-democratic horizon. - Slavoj Žižek
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 20 Jul 2007, 06:59 Ideology: Marxism-Leninism Forum Commissar 24 May 2012, 15:15
Whitten wrote: I used to think this. Now I'm not so sure. Do we really want more people living under capitalism? More dispossession? More traditions and communal values destroyed? More mines, more externalities in exchange for a slim saving in some machine part? Good for electrifying homes. But in exchange for what? all of that? India has had more capitalist development. What are the results? Nukes, landless farmers, higher life expectancy to work it at some office, monoculture, cheap cars and more bills for more people, clothing catalogues and bigger landfills, the satisfaction of needs people didn't know they had or wanted, worries about markets, mass pacification and docility, communists signing international contracts and expelling villagers in the name of progress. The liberal mantra on human rights and the cover it gave for military incursions doesn't seem so diferent from the terraforming of the call for development. "but some poor woman in Afghanistan won't be liberated" "some poor guy in Africa won't ever enter a K-mart" Capitalism had its run for so long on so much of the world. Isn't that enough? Can we please work for socialism where we can, where it is decaying, without bringing more people to this nightmare and before we finish killing the planet? I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong; I'm saying that I have too many doubts to get behind that sentiment, and I won't tell a commie in some faraway country to get behind capitalism. I'll instead focus on trying to smash it where I can and help those who try to smash it where they can. "It does not suffice to reject the error; we must overcome it, explain it and outgrow it." - Antonio Labriola Forum Rules |
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