Soviet-Empire.com U.S.S.R. and communism historical discussion.
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 05 May 2012, 04:03
One of my leftie friends made this remark the other day, while we were discussing the lack of solidarity and class consciousness today.
To paraphrase, if you want to start promoting a culture where people view each other as an asset, you need to first overcome the culture of consumption and consumerism, as it is created to push negative individualism and "What's in it for me?" culture. Discuss. Soviet America is Free America!
Under communism, there is no freedom; you are not free to live in poverty, be homeless, to be without an education, to starve, or to be without a job 05 May 2012, 09:57
Quote: No, i disagree. What does "consumerism" have to do with negative individualism anyway? People today are forced into consumerism. That, and "anticonsumerists" generally suck. 05 May 2012, 14:49
I'd say because consumerism:
Encourages people to focus their lives on buying and accumulating more stuff. Creates artificial needs. Defines happiness and material gain as buying things. Drives petty competition and encourages people to get ahead at the loss of others. It helps drive the mindset that capitalism is eternal, and that we are at the end of history. Soviet America is Free America!
Under communism, there is no freedom; you are not free to live in poverty, be homeless, to be without an education, to starve, or to be without a job 05 May 2012, 15:13
The obsession over "anticonsumerism" is petty bourgeois identity politics.
One can be crazy about iPhones and what not and still be a good Marxist. Of course, most aren't like that but still... We aren't against people having stuff. Socialism, even if seen from a "What's in it for me?" point of view, is vastly superior to capitalism for most working people. Quote: Of course it does, but that doesn't man that it's the only option you have. You can do both and still engage in, say, party work or something. Quote: If the only thing that makes you "happy" is material gain, then you're a lost case. Quote: Yes, this has been here for a long time. Even before the rise of "consumerism". Quote: Bourgeois propaganda which can be countered by our own theories and propaganda...the biggest problem is though getting people to listen to it. 06 May 2012, 00:01
Loz wrote: That's sort of the point though. There isn't a coherent left view today, in the present scene, because capitalism has proven exceedingly adept at absorbing proles into it. Soviet America is Free America!
Under communism, there is no freedom; you are not free to live in poverty, be homeless, to be without an education, to starve, or to be without a job 06 May 2012, 02:33
runequester wrote: Supply. Creates. Demand. Every prosperous society, ever, has had "artificial" demand for non-essential stuff. People are driven to acquire stuff that they consider useful, comfortable, stylish or pleasing. When someone produces the stuff, people will want the stuff. This is not a bad thing: It's an evolutionary trait. People's taste for creature comforts is the tried and true way for material progress to break through risk-aversion and resistance to change!!! Socialists are supposed to want the working classes to be prosperous. Considering technological and material improvements as artificial needs to be decried is not progressive. Cm'on baby, eat the rich!!! - Motörhead
06 May 2012, 02:48
KlassWar wrote: That's artificial. It's supposed to be the other way around.  Forum Rules Red_Son: Bob Avakian is the Glenn Beck of communism. "Le prolétariat; c'est moi." - King Indigo XIV 06 May 2012, 03:02
KlassWar wrote: But a technological or material improvement is not an artificial need. That would be irrational. A purely advertising created need for an object that is inferior, overpriced redundant is, however, an artificial need. Soviet America is Free America!
Under communism, there is no freedom; you are not free to live in poverty, be homeless, to be without an education, to starve, or to be without a job 06 May 2012, 03:05
It works both ways in theory and in practice, both in socialist and capitalist economics.
Research (and eventually supply) follow untapped demand. Capitalists will seek profits in those untapped markets. Socialist economies are expected to provide for the needs of their citizens. Demand creates supply, and this is a natural phenomenon. But often new technologies, tools and products open up new possibilities, creating demand. Before computers existed, there wasn't a demand for software. Before the tank existed, there wasn't a demand for anti-tank weaponry. Before radio existed, there wasn't a demand for radio. People didn't know what it was, they couldn't want it! Sure, if they thought about long-distance, real time voice transmission they'd have thought it would be cool and useful, but there wouldn't be a demand as such until radio started being developed and publicicized. Supply also creates demand, and it's also a natural economic process. Cm'on baby, eat the rich!!! - Motörhead
08 May 2012, 02:14
Let us not lose sight of basics here.
Every person needs good health to function, good health requires access to good, nutritious food, clean air and water, necessary medical care. Every person needs shelter, a place to rest, get clean, eat and a suitable climate controlled environment is needed if one lives within a geographic zone of extreme temperatures. Every person needs an education both for self actualization and to acquire skills needed to produce goods and or services that others value and are willing to pay for, so that person can obtain goods and services that he or she needs in return. Every person needs adequate clothing to shelter them from various climatic elements and to maintain modesty when appropriate. We are very, very far away from these minimal humanitarian goals. 08 May 2012, 14:34
Loz: do you believe that capitalism is based on, and function without, ever-increasing profits?
Soviet America is Free America!
Under communism, there is no freedom; you are not free to live in poverty, be homeless, to be without an education, to starve, or to be without a job 08 May 2012, 14:51
I'm terribly ignorant on these issues, but didn't Marx speak of the tendency of the rate of profit to fall?
Marx also writes that: Quote: Stalin, in the "Economical Problems", writes that: Quote: 08 May 2012, 19:46
Correct. Proft can be realized in three ways:
externally by increasing sales, entering new markets etc internally by improving "efficiency", lowering expenses or through straight up speculation and manipulation (banks f.x.) Soviet America is Free America!
Under communism, there is no freedom; you are not free to live in poverty, be homeless, to be without an education, to starve, or to be without a job |
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