Quote: ![]() "Don't hate on me bro" - Loz
Lol. Just lol.
How aren't they ashamed of themselves for throwing this shit at people? Disgusting. They're indeed correct that China isn't "state capitalist", it's a "regular capitalist country". Certainly has much less state involved than, say, Norway. Quote: That's not socialism. Quote: You don't say? Quote: ? Of course they don't want to have foreigners move their sweatshops to Vietnam or somewhere. Last edited by Loz on 30 Apr 2012, 23:07, edited 1 time in total.
As Loz says, if China today is not capitalist, what does that make Norway or Sweden?
Soviet America is Free America!
Under communism, there is no freedom; you are not free to live in poverty, be homeless, to be without an education, to starve, or to be without a job Quote: Bougeois politicians have no shame or guilt. They have all the power and money they need.
Soviet cogitations: 4955
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 13 Feb 2008, 15:25 Ideology: Other Leftist Politburo
There's a difference between how the CPC wants the Western world to classify China's economic system and how it does itself. Not to mention the factional differences of opinion. State Capitalism isn't a popular idea among Western capitalists, so of course the government wants to play down its intervention into the economy and owenership of enterprises. This is just propaganda aimed at the West, not a true representation of how the CPC actually views itself. There are plenty of Westerners dumb enough to think that China has fully embraced the free market.
No country, except perhaps Somalia, has "fully embraced the free market".
This is just meaningless demagoguery.
Soviet cogitations: 4955
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 13 Feb 2008, 15:25 Ideology: Other Leftist Politburo
Stop trying to sound smart loz. You're not very good at it.
As far as many Westerners, and especially Americans are concerned, they have. This article is aimed at those people. It's just unfortunate that quite a few progressives swallow it as well. They should know better. Quote: How am i trying to sound smart? I'm just stating the obvious facts, which BTW most people in this thread seem to agree with. Quote: As far as many Americans are concerned, Obama is a Communist. Quote: So its wrong for Communists to comment on bullshit and false bourgeois propaganda? Quote: What are you aiming at? Better elaborate your point.
Soviet cogitations: 4955
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 13 Feb 2008, 15:25 Ideology: Other Leftist Politburo
You're entirely missing the point. This article is aimed at those idiots. It's not trying to reflect the truth, because the truth would damage China's relationship with the Western world and it isn't yet finished using the West to hasten its own development. To paraphrase what Stalin said, "The West will sell us the rope we will hang them with".
This only reaffirms the idea the PSL is a bunch of brezhnevites/marcyites.
![]() Quote: And how you know this, pray tell? What idiots? Quote: What exactly is this "truth"? Quote: Stalin said that about all capitalists. Indeed, those who will do the "hanging part" here are going to be the revolutionary Chinese masses and NOT the government of PRC or the "C" PC which is but a front for the Chinese bourgeoisie and various other reactionary cliques. Conscript wrote: This isn't from the PSL. This is from the People's Daily. As in, a PRC based news site. Quote: Lenin said that about all capitalists ![]() Forum Rules Red_Son: Bob Avakian is the Glenn Beck of communism. "Le prolétariat; c'est moi." - King Indigo XIV
Soviet cogitations: 8
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 17 Nov 2011, 12:25 New Comrade (Say hi & be nice to me!) runequester wrote: Norway and Sweden are just capitalist countries which don't even claim to be socialist, but social-democratic. they have quite a bit bigger public sectors than most other capitalist countries but that's it. China on the other hand has its entire banking system, most of its heavy industry, and a majority of its economy overall under total state-ownership, a state under the control of an at least nominally Marxist-Leninist vanguard party. bit of a difference there Quote: Yes and they also have a welfare system (and free/almost free) education and health care, which China doesn't. Of course, no one here is claiming that these are socialist countries. Quote: No, they have many things most other capitalist (and "socialist") countries don't. They are probably the best place for an average proletarian in the whole world. Quote: There are private banks in China and there are sources which say that around 50% of its economy is in the "private sector". But even if everything you said here was true, that still wouldn't be that relevant to proving that China is indeed a socialist country. Because it obviously isn't. deeman1916 wrote: "Nominally Marxist-Leninist" is a lot of comfort when you're working 60 hours a week at a Foxconn plant. Social democracy was originally, at least in Sweden, seen as the road to socialism. That may have turned out not to be true, but Scandinavia is closer today than China is. But let us ask some questions: In which country do workers have the most democrat influence? In which country do workers have the most rights? In which country did the leadership sell out it's citizens to slave for multinational corporations, producing consumer gimmicks and electronic gadgets? Soviet America is Free America!
Under communism, there is no freedom; you are not free to live in poverty, be homeless, to be without an education, to starve, or to be without a job
Soviet cogitations: 8
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 17 Nov 2011, 12:25 New Comrade (Say hi & be nice to me!) Loz wrote: uh, China does have them as much as is possible right now, and is working to expand access to more of the population - http://www.time.com/time/world/article/ ... 06,00.html Quote: the whole West European imperialist bloc has high standards of living even for average proletarians due to said imperialism. Scandinavia's economics mean that they have less of a wealth gap than other parts of Europe and as a result have less social problems, that's it. otherwise, Scandinavia's standard of living is by far due to imperialism Quote: the "Big Four" important banks of China are state-owned. the private sector makes up about 40% of the economy, and it should be noted that much of that aren't actual private-private enterprises but joint-stock enterprises in which the state holds majority stock in. but yeah, that is still far too much private capitalism and they should move away from that Quote: what do you consider to be socialism then?
Because china's economic explosion in the last 20some years has nothing to do with filthy imperialist dollars of course.
Soviet America is Free America!
Under communism, there is no freedom; you are not free to live in poverty, be homeless, to be without an education, to starve, or to be without a job Quote: Hah. No, China isn't a welfare state and it won't become one any time soon. Any future benefits for the Chinese working class will come, of course, through class warfare. Quote: Sure, but imperialist superpowers of Europe (UK, Germany etc.) do not have such welfare systems. Quote: Socialism is the transition to Communism. It's, so to speak, moving away from Capitalism, which China obviously isn't doing. In fact it's obvious that China is rapidly becoming a imperialist superpower. See the new thread i made in this forum.
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Quote: This. Also, to all the pro-PRCers, could you clarify your position that (as I understand it) is that the CPC is pretending to the rest of the world that it is capitalist, while actually incubating socialist ideology within the party? That at some indeterminate point in the future they will release to the world? Just to clarify.
I think the leading argument is about a Left Faction getting control of the CCP and turning it back to the road of socialism. I don't see much hope of this short of a mass political revolution from the Chinese proletariat. However I thing having a CP running your government, even a CP such as the CCP, allows for communist theory to actually be found in state institutions and not [as*] suppressed as it is in the West.
--- * I'm not saying the PRC suppresses Marxist-Leninist ideas, at least I have no reason to believe they do, but I am not sure they're making Marxist theory as avaiable as they should. ![]() لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله - يا عمال العالم اتحدوا |
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