Should begging be legal, or should it it be completely forbidden by law, or allowed except for aggressive begging?
Who said no? Anyone prepared to defend that position?
The moment one accepts the notion of 'totalitarianism', one is firmly locked within the liberal-democratic horizon. - Slavoj Žižek
People should pull themselves up by their bootstraps.
Begging is demoralizing. No one should be forced into that position. In an ideal system, there would be education and jobs for everyone, and you'd be taken care of if you are unable to work. Loz didn't mention whether the question pertains to a socialist or capitalist system, and I assumed the former.
other there should be no laws
I was actually thinking the later. That is, whether anti- (aggressive) begging laws should be introduced by capitalist governments right now.
In socialism of course you can't have begging either, that's social parasitism which is harshly punished.
Voted "Yes, except for aggressive begging which should be forbidden by law" myself.
In developed capitalist countries, many homeless people are mentally ill, and deliberately avoid social aid and government help. Obviously some of them are people who had a tough break and ended up on the streets, but many are just people who have dropped out of society. Among them are also young people who've run away from home, who usually do it temporarily. I've had some bad experiences with these.* In the third world, the situation is of course different, though again complex and multifaceted. Hence I can't vote in this poll, as there are too many variances. As for what would happen in socialism: I suppose I would put that begging should be illegal and punishable as minor hooliganism or, with multiple offences, treated as a psychological problem to be resolved by the appropriate professionals. Again though, even in socialism there are variations. Yugoslavia for instance had problems with unemployment due to its market socialism, whereas countries in the Soviet bloc always had full employment and labour shortages. How can a single measure be applied across variations of socialism?
*Once, I had a job delivering boxes of paper to offices, and there were several offices downtown which had no elevators. So we had to carry several dozen boxes up several flights of stairs, and all the while there was a young, well-dressed guy begging on the stoop at the entrance of the building. Needless to say he is only an individual, but individual experiences like this do add up.
"The thing about capitalism is that it sounds awful on paper and is horrendous in practice. Communism sounds wonderful on paper and when it was put into practice it was done pretty well for what they had to work with." -MiG
Because laws are for states and I don't like states?
Also, begging is usually done for money... which I'd abolish as soon as I could, too. So really I can't come up with any suggestion on how to deal with begging. The question is entirely incompatible with my way of viewing the world, just like all the other "should blabla be legal" questions. Why would anyone care?
So according to you i guess there's no point in discussing proposals for legal measures bourgeois states could take to try to regulate, in a way, society?
In fact, begging is a wonderful example. There is no point in discussing proposals for how to deal with poverty. The point is to abolish it.
So why the frag did we spend decades fighting for 8-hour workdays, pensions and so on and so on then?
Proposals such as state-subsidized housing et cetera actually do matter.
Yes, within the framework of a bourgeois state and its laws.
And the question of the legality of begging relates to class war in what way...?
It probably doesn't, i was just trying to disprove your claim that it's pointless to talk about laws (related to "managing" some social issues) in bourgeois societies.
As Mabool pointed out, the only way to deal with poverty is to abolish it entirely.
We don't have to appeal to an unattainable ideal, we have real societies to look to, such as the U.S.S.R.
Or the DPRK!
Lets be realists once and a while. Begging shouldnt be criminal, but advocating 'class war' as a immediate means to an end such as mabool has is rather silly.
Advocating class war is silly indeed. I don't do that.
I really don't like begging, and so people don't usually give me stuff.
Of course it should be legal. Beggars are victims of the capitalist system, not the perpetrators.
"Communism is more about love for mankind than about politics."
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