Muslim terrorist shoots at Jewish school in France, 4 killed

Shigalyov wrote:

I certainly do.

(Well Christianity and Imperialist Capitalism)

If you're being serious that's dumb and idealist to the max. If not let's leave the sarcasm aside for one post yes?

Shigalyov wrote:

I'm still not clear on which Islamic states you regard to be moderate and acceptable examples of the correct line to follow.

A. Do I get to blame you for every single crime committed by atheists? Because you seem fine with blaming me and my faith for every problem in the middle east or anywhere else there are Muslims. B. When the frag did I say I support Islamic states? I'm sorry but if you think I've ever supported anything like that then you need to pull your head out of your ass and start reading my posts.

Loz wrote:

Yes, but you're ignoring the fact that (don't know about Van Gogh but i'm certain for Rushdie) there was a fatwa put on their their heads,and not by some village imam in Waziristan but by Khomeini himself!
This is almost like 15th century Vatican under the Borgias.

What nonsense. The fight against religion must go on in the First as well as in the Third world.
Atheists and progressives/communists in the Middle East are being hunted by Islamists, ffs.

Yes, let's adapt our lives and society so that it doesn't "offend" religious extremists.
You could just as easily make a similar argument about abortion which "offends" Christian fundamentalists.

You know what they do to bears that are too dangerous? They cull their balls off, that usually calms them down a bit.

You're right about Rushdie, but not Van Gogh. Van Gogh was evidently murdered by a member of a typical decentralised terrorist sleeper cell. You know, the kind of thing that the vast majority of Muslims have nothing to do with because of the very nature of how they are organised; no matter how much you prosecute and shun Muslims, there will always be some sleeper cells that escape your attention.

The Papacy comparison is dumb anyway. Khomeini was not the spiritual leader of all Muslims, but the spiritual leader of, wait for it... Iran! A fundamentalist theocratic state. People like Khomeini can be stopped by abolishing his theocratic state, not by hassling some random Muslims in the first world. The fatwa on Rushdie contradicted Islamic law anyway (no opportunity to defend himself, for one). The fatwa is not a problem of the Muslims, it is a problem of a Muslim, namely the theocratic leader Khomeini and his minority of followers.

Khomeini also brings us to the fight against religion in the Third World. That's rather different: communists are prosecuted by Islamists because they threaten their power. Of course they need to fight back. But what does it concretely mean to "fight religion" in the west? "Let's all laugh at dumb johnny-foreigners because we're so enlightened and free", most of the time. FFS indeed: communists in the third world are "fighting religion" as a life-and-death matter, whereas European atheists mainly just draw silly cartoons to get a reaction (and again: unfortunately, a few crazies will always oblige, whereas most Muslims will just disapprove in general, but shrug their shoulders and get on with life).

Third world communists are fighting religion (amongst many other threats) for their lives. "Militant atheists" in the first world are just useless shit internet trolls. Easy to tell the difference, really. I don't think that they should all "adapt their lives and society" out of fear of violence, but I do think that they know what they're doing, and that makes them enormous dicks, and they could probably do more useful things in their lives. The difference with Christians and abortion is also obvious: abortion is a woman's right that needs to be fought for. Drawing or not drawing dumb cartoons does not make a difference for anyone.

You dont live in the united states right?

I can assure you that there's significant need for "militant atheism" when the political system is run by religious fanatics.

I think Matthijs is perfectly aware of the religious situation in the USA, also seeing how Rick Santorum recently told lies about our country about how old people get euthanized against their will. There is a difference between fighting against religious fundamentalism, conservative moralism etc. and fighting religion itself out of "militant atheism", which is really atheist fundamentalism.

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The fatwa is not a problem of the Muslims, it is a problem of a Muslim, namely the theocratic leader Khomeini and his minority of followers.

Fatwas are a problem of Islam, because it's a part of that religion and it mores.

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FFS indeed: communists in the third world are "fighting religion" as a life-and-death matter, whereas European atheists mainly just draw silly cartoons to get a reaction (and again: unfortunately, a few crazies will always oblige, whereas most Muslims will just disapprove in general, but shrug their shoulders and get on with life).

Yes and drawing cartoons of deities should be banned because religious people get "offended" to the point of burning embassies.

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The difference with Christians and abortion is also obvious: abortion is a woman's right that needs to be fought for. Drawing or not drawing dumb cartoons does not make a difference for anyone.

There's really a thin line between claiming this and further "extending" it to critiques of religion (etc.) in general.
I don't think that society should back up before some reactionary and backwards religious fundmentalists.

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There is a difference between fighting against religious fundamentalism, conservative moralism etc. and fighting religion itself out of "militant atheism", which is really atheist fundamentalism.

No such thing,sorry.
Fundamentalism is the demand for a strict adherence to specific theological doctrines.
Clearly there are no "specific doctines" of atheism. There are militant atheists like E.Hoxha and, say, Hitchens, who really don't have anything in common.

Don't be absurd loz the specific doctrine is that there is no God. The fundamentalist expression of this is the idea that religion altogether is wrong or provides no benefits to anyone. Atheists are like theists is they claim to have metaphysical knowledge, ie "knowing" that there is nothing.

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Don't be absurd loz the specific doctrine is that there is no God.

No,that's a general "doctrine". It's a bit pointless to speak in such terms anyway.
What matters when talking about Islamic or Christian fundamentalism are specific doctrines such as headcovers, alcohol or abortion (this one applies to both of course).

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The fundamentalist expression of this is the idea that religion altogether is wrong or provides no benefits to anyone.

It's not appropriate to put communist atheism and Hitchens' (etc.) all in one basket.

Anyway, Marx said that religion was the "opium" and communists have always been anti-religion.

I once happened to be a honorary member of Al Qaeda Philippines because I fell into what you call a 'honey trap' whose father is an arms dealer for Al Qaeda. It fizzled out! because I was so scared of failing the bar exams, I remained in one of the reserved rooms in the library for the whole season with no time left for her. If only we can bring back those days, I might have been an Al Qaeda arms runner or dealer too. Muslim lady was beautiful. A classmate of mine in law school. And she stands out from other ladies. She's blonde and curvaceous. Jesus@! I yelled "My God is Allah because I love Miss ____ ah!

Holy shit.
That's quite a story.
But aren't the Philippines like, mostly Catholic?

Yes, mostly catholic but there are opulent Muslims in Mindanao who can send their children to exclusive schools in the North or Manila or are intelligent enough to land a slot in the premier university. Half of the number of my fraternity brothers are Muslims. One reason why we were the university's school bullies. Nobody dares fight us because they will be attacked by suicidal muslims with kris(Arab swords).

Allah Abu bakar!!! Allah is really great~! I cannot find a job while praying to Jesus Christ (AZ). I cannot get one. I tried praying to Allah! I got the job! and became a CABLE GUY (Sineng Makulay, owned by Benedicto) starring Jim Carey. Watch the movie. Ricky Ricardo!! Allah Abubakr!!

Loz-

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Anyway, Marx said that religion was the "opium" and communists have always been anti-religion.

That's not true. There have been Christian Communists ,for just one example. Even the current chairman of the Communist Refoundation Party of Italy, Paolo Ferrero, is an evangelical Christian. I feel that a Communist need not be an atheist, just because Karl Marx was, anymore than right-libertarians must be a atheists, since Ayn Rand was.

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That's not true. There have been Christian Communists ,for just one example. Even the current chairman of the Communist Refoundation Party of Italy, Paolo Ferrero, is an evangelical Christian.

Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge was more relevant and had more power than these guys.
South America is the only place where "Christian Communists" have some influence.

[quote="Loz

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Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge was more relevant and had more power than these guys.
South America is the only place where "Christian Communists" have some influence.

They might not have been politicly prominent; but they still are existant. Plus here is what the Communist Party U.S.A. has posted on the subject.

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Communists are not against religion. We are against capitalism. In fact, the Party has its own Religion Commission which seeks to build positive relations with religious people and communities in the struggle to make life better for working people. Most religious people believe in justice, peace, and respectful relations among the peoples of the world, and many are motivated by their faith to work for those goals.

Membership in the Communist Party is open to all who agree with our program, regardless of religious beliefs.

http://www.cpusa.org/faq/

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ARTICLE III – Membership
SECTION 1. Any person living in the United States, 18 years of age or over, regardless of race, color, national origin, sexual orientation, gender, or religious belief, who subscribes to the principles and purposes of the Communist Party shall be eligible for membership.

http://cpusa.org/cpusa-constitution/

Because their wrongness isn't being contested, not by anybody with any sense. Also they're not perpetuating quite as significant atrocities as the Israelis are depite the horrors they do cause.

That has a lot to do with having aims closer to these shitty Islamic regimes than of those who bitch about them. We aren't friends but we shouldn't serve as useful fools for Imperialism. So you're correct there is a difference in rhetoric regarding to the two but it is a response to the exact same double-standard in imperialist propaganda (poor Israel and evil Muslims hordes).