Muslim terrorist shoots at Jewish school in France, 4 killed

Attacks like this and then people wonder why Muslims are disliked. I do not care what justification anyone uses, how they twist any Surah from the Qu'ran or use any combination of Hadiths to somehow provide a basis for what they are doing, the fact stands that Islam fully and unequivocally disallows, disavows and disdains any attack on innocents and especially women and children.

Sadly though the more of these attacks which happen the more people will refuse to believe this. It is not enough for a religious body to say that a religion condemns violence. Not everyone will investigate and even if they do little stops them from judging a faith by its followers. This idiot who did this has cast further shame on Muslims and the image of Islam.

Ironically these people who commit these attacks always say they do it out of concern for the condition of Muslims world wide, but then they fail to realise that this worsens their situation, especially in countries like France or in the wider Europe and West. Such actions only anger the population and close their hearts towards Muslims and Islam.

Utterly repulsive and unpardonable.

PI got it. "Islamists" are a caricature of Islam. It's telling how much they mirror far-rift anti-Islamic propaganda.

@loz: No they had no concern for liberties at all, let alone free speech as you've come out in favor of. You cannot blame the rioters is you support the cartoonists. Also let's remember what Jyllands-Posten is: a racist anti-immigrant rag not some innocent secular cartoonists.

EDiT:
Also apparently the dude they had surrounded has been killed. That's going to leave a mystery.

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No they had no concern for liberties at all, let alone free speech as you've come out in favor of.

A bourgeois democracy with free speech>bourgeois democracy without free speech.
And i don't see anything wrong in making caricatures of deities.

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Also let's remember what Jyllands-Posten is: a racist anti-immigrant rag not some innocent secular cartoonists.

I don't know if it's indeed a "racist" newspapers...

You've made it clear that you're unwilling to comprehend that caricatures aren't just caricatures. Nothing happens in a vacuum loz. And there isn't any real freedom of speech in any bourgeoisie democracy. My speech is meaningless from before I say it because I'm not wealthy enough to give credence to my words.

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You've made it clear that you're unwilling to comprehend that caricatures aren't just caricatures.

What are they then?
Where have we come when in the 21st century people can't even post caricatures (or movies;see Theo van Gogh or book; S.Rushdie) without fearing for their life?

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And there isn't any real freedom of speech in any bourgeoisie democracy. My speech is meaningless from before I say it because I'm not wealthy enough to give credence to my words.

Yes,of course. But you can still be openly atheist or communist in Western Europe (even in America), while in many other countries that would get you stoned.

Loz wrote:

What are they then?
Where have we come when in the 21st century people can't even post caricatures (or movies;see Theo van Gogh or book; S.Rushdie) without fearing for their life?

Now you're just fuсking with me. What kind of world is this where europeans live off third world blood while insulting those same peoples? No clearly with you its okay to be oppressive if you're oppressing religious people (who're mostly workers).

Loz wrote:

Yes,of course. But you can still be openly atheist or communist in Western Europe (even in America), while in many other countries that would get you stoned.

For someone who resists imperialist lies about Stalin so vociferously it's surprising you would so gladly uphold the most bullshit notions about the middle east.

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Now you're just fuсking with me. What kind of world is this where europeans live off third world blood while insulting those same peoples? No clearly with you its okay to be oppressive if you're oppressing religious people (who're mostly workers).

Communists in the past did not care about "insulting" religious people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bezbozhnik

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For someone who resists imperialist lies about Stalin so vociferously it's surprising you would so gladly uphold the most bullshit notions about the middle east.

Apostasy is punishable by death in Islam, no?

No you're not supposed to kill or even harm apostates. That's Wahabbi bullshit. The prophet spoke repeatedly of leaving judgement (and especially punishment) to Allah. Also let's see some statistics, how many atheists were stoned across the ME last year and where?

Oh and communists have made a lot of mistakes in the past. If you'll remember there isn't a USSR anymore. I'm not saying reaching out to religious comrades would have been enough to save the Union but shitting on them certainly didn't help. See Afghanistan.

But people do get stoned to death for adultery or killed for apostasy in some Muslim countries. That's Shariah.

Iran (one of the more developed Muslim countries)


Afghanistan

Good job pointing out the Khmer Rouges of Islam.

While I am generally against the establishment of religion as an institution rather than a personal manner, it is worth noting that in the case of the Danish cartoons, they were published more or less intentionally to provoke the reaction that they did... which in turn fuelled anti-immigrant debate, which was at a fever pitch in the country at the time.

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Good job pointing out the Khmer Rouges of Islam.

Not really. There are many Muslim countries where things like that happen.
As i said, Iran is one of the more developed M-E states.

EDIT: What Shig said.

Shigalyov wrote:

So you and PI are Palestinians? Are familiar with something called 'logic'.

This is a shitty thing to be so petty about.

Shigalyov wrote:

Cause stuff like that never happens in places like Saudi Arabia, Indonesia.... etc... etc. .

Come to think of it where are all the progressive Islamic theocratic states?

Knee-jerk away. If you'd payed attention to anything I've ever said I am one of the biggest haters of al-Saud on this site. Do not try to force the crimes of these capitalist regimes on Islam. That's like blaming Christianity for Bush.

Shigalyov wrote:

Why are communists still defending these types of people.

Why are communists parroting imperialist rhetoric? These riots were damaging only to Muslims.

Shigalyov wrote:

The ascension of Islam represents one of the most atavistic dangers that currently faces the world - Europe in particular.

Oh dear. Are you gonna post one of those stats that claim if Muslims reach more than five percent of the population then it's automatic SHARIAH LAW! Jesus Christ most Muslims in Europe are there to escape the atmosphere created by imperialism in the ME and SE.

Shigalyov wrote:

If, as you Muslims say, these sorts of actions are a violation of your teachings, wouldn't it be better to spend your time educating your fellow Muslims instead of defending the behaviour of your "renegades"?

I do. Jesus read my -comment removed- posts. Islamists are a PARODY of Islam directly out of a chick tract. In the meantime however I'm not going to listen to bullshit imperialist rhetoric from communists.

Shigalyov wrote:

What the hell do you mean by this? Allows itself? Jumping in front of gunmen's bullets and other provocative behaviour like this?

What I mean is that they always jump on the bandwagon of "antisemitism" (don't be mistaken, this was antisemitism) whenever anyone criticizes Israel, but my point is that progressive jews should join up with progressive muslims to combat these sort of things. Not automatically blame everything on muslims (this also counts for muslims who blame jews for everything btw).

Shigalyov wrote:

The ascension of Islam represents one of the most atavistic dangers that currently faces the world - Europe in particular.

Are you crazy? It's not the muslims here that are fundamentalists but PVV (Geert Wilders' party) people who are. Stop confusing Islam and Islamism or fundamentalism.

Loz wrote:

What are they then?
Where have we come when in the 21st century people can't even post caricatures (or movies;see Theo van Gogh or book; S.Rushdie) without fearing for their life?

It's sad, but it's also a risk that can never be fully eliminated. Any madman can get the idea into his mind that Van Gogh or whoever needs to die and carefully plan it. A lot of terrorism gets foiled, but one can always succeed. If someone decides tomorrow that they want to drop an anvil on my head, then that might very well happen.

It's a pity, because I think all of those people should be able to publish what they want. But that doesn't exactly mean that they are doing a great thing. I think 21st c. western-style "militant atheism" is a typical first world obsession: let's all laugh at dumb people and call them dumb, especially when they are part of a backwards immigrant community, because we are sooooo much smarter than those dumb backwards people. And with a bit of luck, they'll react primitively or even violently, and then we can go on TV and say that this vindicates our longtime claims that these people are dumb and backwards.

With specific regard to the Jyllands-Posten story: I don't support self-censorship in the face of threats of violence, but when you know that you're going to provoke this reaction and you do it anyway, what does that make you? Common sense says that it's just a dick move that you shouldn't do, but apparently it's a great exercise of free speech when you do it to make this particular point. Poking a bear with a stick repeatedly to prove that bears are dangerous, that's all it is.

I'm also absolutely puzzled by the guy who says that "the ascension of Islam is the greatest danger, especially in Europe". Based on what? The J-P thing? The gunman in Toulouse? Maybe when you go into the territory of blaming entire groups of people with certain beliefs because individual terrorists also happen to have those beliefs. In which case one only needs to point at a certain guy in Norway who methodically killed dozens of children last summer. He also happens to believe that the ascension of Islam is a massive danger to Europe. Since we're playing this blame game, I guess his acts were also the fault of Islam-criticism in general. Yes, let's go there. Let's.

The French funded the Islamists in Libya and are now surprised that one of these people went postal and killed the four Jews and three soldiers. These killings have overshadowed the previous killings because the victims were Jews and the shooter was a Muslim, whilst two of the soldiers were fellow Muslims. At least this guy was a lone wolf and not part of a greater network, otherwise this case would've been much worse.

I hope that Sarkozy's late boost won't translate into a win against Hollande because it would suck to have a POS like him for another five years.

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It's sad, but it's also a risk that can never be fully eliminated. Any madman can get the idea into his mind that Van Gogh or whoever needs to die and carefully plan it.

Yes, but you're ignoring the fact that (don't know about Van Gogh but i'm certain for Rushdie) there was a fatwa put on their their heads,and not by some village imam in Waziristan but by Khomeini himself!
This is almost like 15th century Vatican under the Borgias.

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It's a pity, because I think all of those people should be able to publish what they want. But that doesn't exactly mean that they are doing a great thing. I think 21st c. western-style "militant atheism" is a typical first world obsession: let's all laugh at dumb people and call them dumb, especially when they are part of a backwards immigrant community, because we are sooooo much smarter than those dumb backwards people.

What nonsense. The fight against religion must go on in the First as well as in the Third world.
Atheists and progressives/communists in the Middle East are being hunted by Islamists, ffs.

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With specific regard to the Jyllands-Posten story: I don't support self-censorship in the face of threats of violence, but when you know that you're going to provoke this reaction and you do it anyway, what does that make you?

Yes, let's adapt our lives and society so that it doesn't "offend" religious extremists.
You could just as easily make a similar argument about abortion which "offends" Christian fundamentalists.

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Poking a bear with a stick repeatedly to prove that bears are dangerous, that's all it is.

You know what they do to bears that are too dangerous? They cull their balls off, that usually calms them down a bit.