Soviet cogitations: 637 Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 08 Aug 2011, 22:59 Ideology: Other Leftist Komsomol
17 Dec 2011, 14:28
With the reference to the NATO invasion, Mr.Adolfsen/Ahtisaari talks about how "Serbia stole a wallet from Kosovo". When seriously challenged by the moderator Micheal Mann, CNN, he insists there are not two sides to the story, but one only. Gets a huge laugh from the audience a couple of times for his ludicrous statements on mediation. Truly abominable[url] http://bit.ly/vMRgFa[/url]
Just for the record: I'm not pro-Milošević by far, he should've been dealt with back in the 1980s. So, my post has got nothing to do with endorsing his regime.
Soviet cogitations: 3553 Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 17 Jul 2006, 00:10 Ideology: Other Leftist Forum Commissar
17 Dec 2011, 15:00
several kosovar albanians i know would prefer to see yugoslavia again. also the way i heard albanians have a dislike for kosovars for some reason. this independence serves no one but NATO. also if you ask me, the only reason ahtisaari "negrotiated" [sic] independence of kosovo was because he needed a new kidney
Last edited by Moris on 17 Dec 2011, 16:36, edited 2 times in total.
Jugoslavija je bleda slika premrzlega partizana zato je njeno ljudstvo navajeno trpeti zato je njeno ljudstvo pripravljeno umreti.
Soviet cogitations: 637 Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 08 Aug 2011, 22:59 Ideology: Other Leftist Komsomol
17 Dec 2011, 16:06
Moris wrote:
also if you ask me, the only reason ahtisaari "negrotiated" [sic] independence of kosovo was because he needed a new kidney:P
There's a number of allegations about Adolfsen/Ahtisaari - that he got a bribe of € 2 million for the "peace plan", and that by cutting Kosovo away from (orthodox) Serbs he finally got his revenge for Finland losing his hometown to (orthodox) Russians (then Soviet Union). What I find particularly interesting is that there was no initiative whatsoever to investigate these allegations, prompting people that there's a cover-up. Besides, a Nobel Peace Prize laureate cannot be a villain, right? It's a sad world we live in, comrade.
Soviet cogitations: 3553 Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 17 Jul 2006, 00:10 Ideology: Other Leftist Forum Commissar
17 Dec 2011, 18:12
i wouldnt be surprised if that was his actual plan all along.
wasnt he presiding over SLO-CRO border dispute a few years back? i remember him proposing a plan which favoured slovenia and after croatia complained he drafted a new plan which was 100% in favour of croatia. he has a habit of meddling in other countries affairs and drafting schizophrenic treaties. pahor solved the dispute masterfully and i'm quite certain kosovo dispute would have been handled the same way without his interference.
Jugoslavija je bleda slika premrzlega partizana zato je njeno ljudstvo navajeno trpeti zato je njeno ljudstvo pripravljeno umreti.
Soviet cogitations: 10565 Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17 Philosophized
18 Dec 2011, 03:01
Quote:
There's a number of allegations about Adolfsen/Ahtisaari - that he got a bribe of € 2 million for the "peace plan", and that by cutting Kosovo away from (orthodox) Serbs he finally got his revenge for Finland losing his hometown to (orthodox) Russians (then Soviet Union).
And who gave him all that money? The Finnish nationalist party "True Finns"? I mean is there any (concrete) evidence?
Quote:
wasnt he presiding over SLO-CRO border dispute a few years back? i remember him proposing a plan which favoured slovenia and after croatia complained he drafted a new plan which was 100% in favour of croatia. he has a habit of meddling in other countries affairs and drafting schizophrenic treaties. pahor solved the dispute masterfully and i'm quite certain kosovo dispute would have been handled the same way without his interference.
I didn't really follow all that,but from what i recall the SLO-CRO dispute was about a part of the sea in the Piran Gulf and some small parts of land,but Kosovo is an entity with almost 2 million people living there...
Soviet cogitations: 3553 Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 17 Jul 2006, 00:10 Ideology: Other Leftist Forum Commissar
18 Dec 2011, 12:11
Quote:
And who gave him all that money? The Finnish nationalist party "True Finns"? I mean is there any (concrete) evidence?
true finns are the most incompetent party in europe and incapable of long-term planning.
Quote:
I didn't really follow all that,but from what i recall the SLO-CRO dispute was about a part of the sea in the Piran Gulf and some small parts of land,but Kosovo is an entity with almost 2 million people living there...
my point was that he gave two ludicrous proposals both parties refused and eventually solved the dispute on their own. serbia however did not have the privilege of refusing his proposal.
Jugoslavija je bleda slika premrzlega partizana zato je njeno ljudstvo navajeno trpeti zato je njeno ljudstvo pripravljeno umreti.
Soviet cogitations: 637 Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 08 Aug 2011, 22:59 Ideology: Other Leftist Komsomol
18 Dec 2011, 18:59
Loz wrote:
And who gave him all that money? The Finnish nationalist party "True Finns"? I mean is there any (concrete) evidence?
According to what I know, it was supposedly given to him by the Albanian mafia via an unknown assailant. There were even bank account numbers published, yet no investigation ever followed. It would've been quite easy to dispute it as just another conspiracy theory. Instead of an investigation, he received a NObel Peace Prize. Go figure... The motive behind the bribe was to ensure Kosovo to become some sort of a disputed zone which would ensure years of ineffective government and lots of opportunities for the mafia to spread business over there. Indeed, the human organ trafficking is very developed there, most of Europe-slated heroin goes trough there...
Soviet cogitations: 2842 Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Nov 2004, 20:31 Party Bureaucrat
10 Jan 2012, 04:51
Quote:
Mr.Adolfsen
There's no "Mr. Adolfsen". The man's name is name Ahtisaari. If you are going to go on about Ahtisaari having received bribes then get real evidence and present it among other places here - among nazi allegations that's a day to wait for.
The Weight of Chains is a documentary about the breakup of Yugoslavia and the direction that the former Yugoslav Republics went in the aftermath. Much of the focus of the film is on NATO’s intervention in the violent conflicts that ensued, as well as the West’s role in promoting such conflict. It is quite a relevant documentary for today as NATO continues to engage in “humanitarian interventions” in the developing world.
The documentary primarily covers the period from the late 80s up to the independence of Kosovo. It offers a refreshing look at the conflict, not through the eyes of the West stepping in to do a humanitarian good, but instead demonstrates the problems of NATO intervention and that their role was that of “colonization” instead of mere intervention.
While the narrative of the documentary is refreshing and takes an “anti-imperialist” stance to a degree, it isn’t without some problems. For example, the way that ethnic tensions are portrayed in the film is almost suggesting that they were merely the result of Western manipulation and intervention, although the film does not suggest a sort of grand conspiracy involved in the Alex Jones sense. Yugoslavia’s ethnic tensions predate the socialist period (as the film does point out) and the institutions and divisions of the country that existed to decrease ethnic tensions under Tito did give an opportunity for them to be exploited during the deep crisis. This discussion opens up an important part of the overall Marxist stance on national self determination. These contradictions within Yugoslavia’s socialist period were not taken seriously or explored in the documentary: there is even a portion where tensions between Albanians and Serbs during the socialist period is pointed to, which runs a bit counter to the narrative of Western manipulation of ethnic tension.
The crisis tore Yugoslavia apart
Also, some of the atrocities that surely took place were not explored or essentially brushed off. While this was perhaps not the intention of the filmmaker, this could be interpreted as ignoring an important part of the conflicts that ensued. There likely was anticipation of the criticism, however, by the filmmaker who likely decided instead to reject the obligatory focus on those things that were used to justify NATO intervention: as atrocities happened on all sides.
Another point that wasn’t really explored was the market model of Yugoslav socialism. During the segment explaining how Yugoslavia was independent, this model was just assumed to be the “better socialism” yet that model’s features were only briefly dealt with. Perhaps this was outside of the scope of the film, as it was geared more towards the explaining of the breakup, but more exploration of this issue would have been beneficial to the film.
While there were indeed shortcomings of the film, it is important that documentaries like it exist. They challenge the accepted argument of “humanitarian intervention” that even some Leftists attempt to appeal to, which is quite unfortunate.
17 Dec 2011, 14:28
