The truth about the Baltics.

So, I want to know the real truth about what the relationship between the USSR and the Baltic States, not propaganda from Baltic Nationalists or Red Alert Kiddies. More specifically, I am looking for the details of the annexation to the USSR, the veracity of any atrocity stories that Baltic Nationalists tell, like deportation of entire families to Siberia and the Red Army's side in the struggle against the "Forest Brothers". I am also looking for what life was like in the Baltic States during that time and the details of what happened when they left (I.E., the January Incidents). Thanks in advance.

Sorry I didn't catch this before I saw you mention this in Mir (or I did but didn't respond and forgot), and unfortunately my knowledge is a bit incomplete. Based what I learned from history courses in the university, m understanding is that the USSR did integrate the Baltics into the Soviet state with some political machinations with the pro-Soviet Communists in those regions involved, and that it was done during the period of the Non Aggression Pact between the USSR and the Third Reich, perhaps somewhat forcibly.

Of course, the Soviets had their own security to think of, and considering that the Baltic states were leaning to the right and to the West, along with Poland, and since I still do have affinity for the Soviets, my opinion is that such an act would have been justified, though perhaps it was not the most subtle or best way to prevent the backlash we're seeing now. Also, even if it was done forcibly, it's likely that the Baltic nationalists indeed have exaggerated in order to prove how ZOMG SOVIETS WERE AS EVIL AS THE NAZIS AND COMMUNISM AND FASCISM ARE BOTH SIDES OF THE SAME COIN.

As an aside: my TA for one of my Russian history courses agreed with me that the Baltic nationalists exaggerate too much about the "crimes" of the Soviet occupation and seemed to be almost forgetting that the Nazis invaded their countries too. She told me about how in one (Estonia, I believe) there is a monument at the site of rubbles to memorialize "Soviet aggression" and didn't really mention the Nazis.

Sorry I can't answer the questions about life in Soviet Baltic Republics in the late '30s through the '40s. Unfortunately my knowledge in that area is pretty minimal.

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Sorry I didn't catch this before I saw you mention this in Mir (or I did but didn't respond and forgot), and unfortunately my knowledge is a bit incomplete

At least you actually responded. Apparently, there's been several pages added to TLCTE since then, a few other non-descript posts in R of Cuba and other states, not to mention a shitpost by Shaft. It's almost like everybody's avoiding this forum. Amazing.

I think I read somewhere that essentially, Latvia is a fascist leaning Republic. Is this a true assertion, or is it mere propaganda as well?

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I think I read somewhere that essentially, Latvia is a fascist leaning Republic. Is this a true assertion, or is it mere propaganda as well?

As good as all parties in Latvia are conservative to extreme right-wing conservative.The right-wing nature of the entire national structure is shown by the fact that the Communist movement in Latvia cannot operate under that name. The Socialist Party of Latvia is de facto a Communist party, but cannot bear this name (I believe it is legally banned).
While 37,5 % of the Latvians are ethnic Russians, Russian is considered a "foreign language" and barred from official use throughout the nation.
Anyone not descending from "pure" Latvians who inhabited the country prior to Juna 14 1940 is denied electoral rights. Naturalization, including for the masses of ethnical Russians in Latvia, can only happen through conversational knowledge of Latvian, an oath of loyalty, renunciation of former citizenship, a 5-year residency requirement, and a knowledge of the Latvian constitution.
Anyone ever serving in the Red Army, the KGB or any related service, or ever having been member of the CPSU is completely ineligible to ever be considered a Latvian, and is thus barred from civilian rights in Latvia.

Holy shit, that's harsh.
A friend of mine is from Latvia, he's pretty right-wing in a lot of ways, and I think his family is overall, but he's not considered "pure" Latvian. Basically he described his ethnicity as being like "Soviet" (despite hating the Soviet Union) because he has a mixed heritage of Russian, Ukrainian, Latvian, Jewish, and probably some other things thrown in too, and pretty much his family is like that too. They eventually ended up in America, but because of Latvia's laws, while living in the country, they were stateless for quite a while.

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Anyone ever serving in the Red Army, the KGB or any related service, or ever having been member of the CPSU is completely ineligible to ever be considered a Latvian, and is thus barred from civilian rights in Latvia.

Wait, WTF, I don't get it. Wasn't there universal conscription in the USSR, so anybody from any of the ex-Soviet countries would have been in the Soviet military? By this standard, no one would have been eligible unless they were under whatever the age for conscription when Latvia became independent. Or did they literally mean like pre-1945 Red Army when it was officially known as that before it became the Armed Forces of the Soviet Union?

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Wait, WTF, I don't get it. Wasn't there universal conscription in the USSR, so anybody from any of the ex-Soviet countries would have been in the Soviet military? By this standard, no one would have been eligible unless they were under whatever the age for conscription when Latvia became independent. Or did they literally mean like pre-1945 Red Army when it was officially known as that before it became the Armed Forces of the Soviet Union?

I'm sorry, I haven't been entirely clear on this point. Apparantly it means that those who settled in Latvia during the period 1940-1991 can never be eligible for Latvian citizenship if they settled down in Latvia subsequent to retirement from the Soviet Army. This means all those who did not live in Latvia before 1940, but descended from any other SSR, and settled in the Latvian SSR for whatever reason after retirement from military service, is barred from any civilian rights in Latvia, as well as any possibility of ever attaining those rights.

Looks like this is a site for revanchists who want to restore the ussr. Forget about it, it's dead. As to Latvia, it is not as liberal as say Germany or Holland, but right wing, no. And there is a very good reason to require fluency in Latvian and restriction on non-Latvian speakers voting, to prevent attempts to reabsorb it into the fascist russian federation. Makes sense to me!

OK, thanks for clearing that up. I guess that would have meant that my friend's grandpa who served in the Red Army during the Great Patriotic War wouldn't have been able to become a citizen had he been alive in 1991. From what he told me, his immediate family (basically him, his sister, and his parents) could have gotten Latvian citizenship, but they would have had to reapply and go through a lot of procedures, so they didn't bother, became stateless persons, and then moved to the US (I think it was in that order, and not that they left Latvia and then became stateless... I'm not quite sure, actually).

Latvia is indeed known for the high amount of stateless inhabitants it has. 18 percent (!) of the Latvian population are legally "non-citizens", which means they can not vote in any election (municipal or national) or work in any government or civil employment.
Funny thing is these are not considered illegal immigrants, just some sort of lesser individuals who are "tolerated" to a certain extent.

lol if that's not fascist I don't know what is.

Quite reminiscent of the situation of the German Jews around 1935.