Part of me cant help but question of he himself has become the scapegoat of atrocity.... He's obviously made the point he was just following orders but that realistically is no excuse for the crimes committed.
What are your thoughts on all of this?
I don't give a shit about the Democratic Kampuchea regime. All the responsible officers of that criminal band should be shot.
These sorts of people are dreadful enemies of Socialism. How many years is it going to take to undo the damage done by these maniacs. In fifty years time we will still be having to explain why these assholes are traitors to the cause.
RedSword wrote:I'm not a big fan of the death penalty, but these savages make it pretty hard to argue against it. The fact that he was not given at least "Life" is an insult to everyone involved.
I don't understand why the current regime is letting these sorts of sentences through. Are they seeking to perpetuate the resentment with the past? How much is this determined by the U.N. and how much by the country itself?
Maybe the article said it, but I didn't see it, Would Cambodia deliver a death sentence in this regard, or are do they not do that? Or is the UN making sure they don't?
I agree. The Khmer Rouge were a stain to the socialist movement and the leaders should have been executed Mussolini-style by the people. Their policies devastated the nation and allowed the monarchy to return to Cambodia.
There are no libertarians in dumpsters.
In my opinion, an "international tribunal" set up by the US has no legitimacy. Moreover, why doesn't it prosecute Hun Sen and Kissinger too? Hun Sen tortured political prisoners and killed a lot of people while he was head of the Viet Nam-backed puppet regime, Kissinger was Nixon's advisor during the bombing of Cambodia. Apparently this tribunal has the only purpose of shielding the real guilty.
Moreover, Democratic Kampuchea gave the Cambodian people everything they no longer have, independence above all.
Wait wait. You support "Democratic Kampuchea" more than, say, Yugoslavia? Why? I mean I'm prepared to believe that what we hear about Cambodia in the West is the same kind of lies we hear about Stalin and the DPRK, but as yet, I haven't found anything to indicate this. Unless of course you believe it's all true and still support Pol Pot, in which case you must be a very weird person, to say the least.
Dem. Kampuchea was ruled by a gang of idiots,lunatics and imperialist agents!
Guess who gave aid to the "Khmer" guerrilla after the Vietnamese overthrew their gruesome tyranny? The CIA!
Pol Pot and his degenerates destroyed the country,reverted it to the Middle Age and killed many of it's best people-intellectuals(or everyone who had glasses).
To call the Khmer Rouge "socialist" or "communist" is a morbid provocation.
Why did he get 35 years he was only a chef just trying to survive the Khmer Rouge regime.
"Those who do not move, do not notice their chains." - Rosa Luxemburg
Long Live The Bolivarian Revolution!
RIP Muamar Qadafi
RIP Hugo Chavez
I'm not saying that Democratic Kampuchea was free of mistakes and shortcomings. But a lot of lies are circulating about it. Who did actually read its documents? The first thing the revolutionary government did, was to build roads, people's hospitals outside the capital, to fight sickness; it held elections; it educated the people, and illitteracy literally fell. Moreover, the massacre of intellectuals is a fake (many government officials had glasses, by the way): it is rather true that, before the revolution, science was a privilege of wealthy classes, while it was popularized after 1975.
As for the dead, usually we hear that Pol Pot killed 2-3 million people between 1975 and 1979, when his government was in place. According to a Finnish inquiry commission (not a communist source, apparently!), those numbers are true, but they refere to the entire 1970s, a period that saw Lon Nol's dictatorship, US bomings, DK, and the Vietnamese invasion.
And who ordered the Vietnamese to invade Cambodia and overthrow its revolution?
Moreover, the fact that the CIA financed the Khmer Rouge is a popular fake. After the Vietnamese invasion, a unity government was formed between the Khmer Rouge and the royalists of former King Norodom Sihanouk. The US financed the royalists because they were anti-Soviet, surely not the Khmer Rouge! In fact, after the royalists agreed to take part at the fake-elections in 1991 (or 1990, I'm not so sure) and the Khmer Rouge continued to fight, the US aid "misteriously" ended.
Highly interesting. More info, please? Statistics, reports, pictures maybe? I'll have to admit that we know far less about Democratic Kampuchea than about the DPRK even, so I think it's awesome that we have a new member who seems to be informed.
I've never heard of your claims before.
Please provide sources...
According to a speech given by Pol Pot during his visit in China in 1977, a campaign began in 1975 to increase grain production which was mainly completed by 1976. Farmers were gathered in cooperatives and State-owned farms. Honorary awards (such as the "Honorary Red Flag") were given to best factories and farms. Agriculture was seen as the basic factor to develop industry later.
In 1976 a literacy campaign began, giving basic education to 80% of illiterate people by 1977. Before 1975, no more than 500 people worked in the field of science. Also a campaign against malaria was launched, mainly completed by 1977. Roads were built, hospitals were created to popularize health, while before 1975 hospitals were almost only in Phnom Penh.
In the field of social equality, women were given the same rights of men. The DK government was the first to have female ministers.
The Vietnamese or the current regime have never contradicted this.
Although many mistakes were committed, we must never forget that the Vietnamese began infiltrating DK precisely in 1975, even creating a clandestine party. They conducted acts of sabotage and subversion to accomodate their invasion. And why the Kampuchean farmers supported the post-1979 Khmer Rouge guerrilla?
In the end, let me quote the DK ambassador at the UN: I did not realise that currency abolition and
people's evacuation had been practiced in terms of class struggle in order to continue the
Socialist Revolution and to establish a socialist country. Then I realised that they were very
important acts that needed to be done after the exhausting war. Besides, they were just the
This is Ieng Sary, DK foreign minister, who is perfectly alive today, with glasses.
But you didn't provide a source.
Please give the exact link.
And Pol Pot went to a college in France.
That's not a proof that Red Khmers didn't kill intellectuals(sometimes even people with glasses) outside the party top though.
That's interesting to hear, UBolshevik, but do you have information from outside sources, e.g., not Pol Pot or representatives of the Khmer Rouge government? I know they can be biased, but some sources are less biased than others, and yet most of what I have received for information indicate that people with glasses were killed (obviously not fully true, but one would have to wonder if the person whose picture you posted was spared because he was in the government), collectivization was brutal, and something like 1/5 of Cambodia's population perished.
I don't doubt that there was education, but on the other hand, I am also curious if education was only seen fit to be given to those who were not considered "tainted" by other forms of information, while many of those who had been educated previously were killed or isolated from society.
But do they acknowledge it formally that the Khmer Rouge did do some good in the country, or do they denounce it as an evil, irrational, genocidal regime completely and never bring up the issues of the DK's accomplishments in infrastructure and education?
“Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals” - Mark Twain
HURDY HUR HUR.
I'm not saying the Deutsches Reich was free of mistakes and shortcomings, but a lot of lies are circulating about it.
it also introduced the 'new people' as slave labour, which got little medical care, had a privileged military caste.
its one massive lie!
They did, because they got pissed off refugees were flooding in and soldiers playing border-crosser.
1/10 because I replied. Nice try.
"Rise and Demise of Democratic Kampuchea" by Craig Etcheson and "The Constitution of Democratic Kampuchea: The Semantics of Revolutionary Change" by David Chandler are good books. You can also check on the Documentation Center of Cambodia, althought anti-communist.
Outside sources can be found everywhere. It's very difficult if not impossible to find impartial sources on those matters, as you know. Anyway, reading what Pol Pot actually said is surely beneficial, since he is always censored. The Khmer Rouges are almost the only source of dissent on the matter. Anyway, the communist visiting delegations to Cambodia agreed on that, China among them; but we could consider them as biased, of course, then let's consider again the Finnish inquiry commission's report that proves the "2-3 million dead" wrong.
Pol Pot publicly recognized that many mistakes occurred, that he was responsible for some of them, but the most of them were committed by people who later proved to be traitors. Many Party leaders were opportunists or Vietnamese agents. That's not propaganda: four top-leaders, Khieu Samphan, Ieng Sary, Son Sen and Ta Mok, all betrayed Pol Pot; the current Prime Minister Hun Sen was a Khmer Rouge before being appointed as prime minister by the Vietnamese.
Well, you don't invade a country saying that it did some good...
Did they? The Vietnamese were trying to ecompass all Indochina into a military alliance led by Viet Nam, and they did with Laos by forcing a treaty that allowed Vietnamese troops to freely cross the border. Moreover, Viet Nam was allied with the Soviet Union, while DK was near to China, and in fact the Soviet Union provided assistance and recognition to the puppet regime.
Uncle Ho, puppet regime?
I can't believe I'm seeing a defense of the Khmer Rouge. To libel the courageous forces of Vietnam who ended this horrible despot's shitty non-socialist dictatorship is disgusting. Its been well established that the CIA, and delta force, aided the Khmer Rouge, and other Cambodian agents, against the invading socialist armies. The only way someone could possibly portray such a group of assholes in a positive light is by accepting the degenerate Social Imperialism theories. Which is just one more example of why Maoism sucks.
لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله - يا عمال العالم اتحدوا
Uncle Ho died 10 years before. I was referring to the regime the Vietnamese established in Phnom Penh after they invaded, by the way.
@Dagoth Ur: Actually I explained how the CIA "aided" the Khmer Rouge... They aided King Norodom, not Pol Pot, and in fact they ceased to send their aid after Norodom distanced himself from Pol Pot in order to return king. And I don't see what's wrong with social-imperialism theory.
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