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Hijab martyr in Germany

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Soviet cogitations: 283
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 29 Apr 2009, 02:31
Unperson
Post 14 Jul 2009, 05:31
Quote:
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,4473035,00.html
Dubbed the "veil murder" by Muslim groups, al Sherbini, who was three months pregnant, was stabbed at least 18 times in front of her husband and their three-year-old son by a Russian-born German man in the courtroom.

She had previously successfully sued the man for damages after he was found guilty of insulting her for wearing a headscarf in a children's playground.

The 28-year-old man, identified only as Alex W., had appealed against the conviction and fine, and the fatal attack took place during the appeal hearing. The man had right-wing views, according to police, but no previous record of offenses.


The murder of a pregnant Muslim girl in a German courtroom over the hijab was an atrocity demonstrating Islamophobia and an all-around absence of human rights in the so-called democracies of the West.

This surge in racism and fascism in the West must be resolutely opposed. Even the Europeans themselves admit
Quote:
In its 2004 annual report, the European Commission against Racism and Intolerance (ECRI) found that:

“Islamophobia continues to manifest itself in different guises. Muslim communities are the target of negative attitudes, and sometimes, violence and harassment. They suffer multiple forms of discrimination, including sometimes from certain public institutions. ECRI is worried about the current climate of hostility against persons who are or are believed to be Muslim.”


The murder has drawn serious international indignation:
Quote:
http://www.tehrantimes.com/Index_view.asp?code=198590
A number of Iranian students gathered in front of the German embassy in Tehran on Saturday to protest the killing of the Egyptian woman, Marwa Al-Sherbini, in Germany.

The students chanted slogans “Death to the Zionist racist” and “Merkel, Merkel, Shame, Shame”.

They were also carrying placards saying: “Racism is always condemned”.
"Mama, I've sworn to myself not to chase girls until we've knocked off the bourgeoisie in the whole world."---Pavel Korchagin
Soviet cogitations: 10005
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
Ideology: Trotskyism
Philosophized
Post 14 Jul 2009, 06:43
Human rights are reactionary. I see no trouble with them missing.

And, yeah, we've got a lot of racists round here. It's a German tradition. That's why we have Antifa.
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
Soviet cogitations: 3448
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 26 Jun 2006, 15:59
Ideology: Other Leftist
Party Bureaucrat
Post 14 Jul 2009, 12:44
I love the way the Islamophiliac Left has been trying to make this out to be something more than a regular racist murder.
The moment one accepts the notion of 'totalitarianism', one is firmly locked within the liberal-democratic horizon. - Slavoj Žižek
Soviet cogitations: 283
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 29 Apr 2009, 02:31
Unperson
Post 14 Jul 2009, 18:18
Quote:
And, yeah, we've got a lot of racists round here.

The killer is a Russian immigrant of German ancestry.

Quote:
Human rights are reactionary.

Socialism upholds genuine human rights unlike the hypocritical bourgeois concepts of human rights.

Quote:
Islamophiliac Left

Islamophobia is a most serious danger against which there must be an unremitting struggle by progressive forces. Deriding those concerned about racism as "Islamophiles" is rather suspicious.
"Mama, I've sworn to myself not to chase girls until we've knocked off the bourgeoisie in the whole world."---Pavel Korchagin
Soviet cogitations: 3448
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 26 Jun 2006, 15:59
Ideology: Other Leftist
Party Bureaucrat
Post 14 Jul 2009, 18:26
Quote:
Deriding those concerned about racism as "Islamophiles" is rather suspicious.


Refusing to stand up for womens rights for fear of offending some patriachal reactionaries is alot worse than 'suspicious'.
The moment one accepts the notion of 'totalitarianism', one is firmly locked within the liberal-democratic horizon. - Slavoj Žižek
Soviet cogitations: 7674
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Nov 2004, 02:08
Embalmed
Post 14 Jul 2009, 19:23
Quote:
The killer is a Russian immigrant of German ancestry.

Yeah, because russians arn't racist at all.
Quote:
Socialism upholds genuine human rights unlike the hypocritical bourgeois concepts of human rights.

Define this, please.
Quote:
Islamophobia is a most serious danger against which there must be an unremitting struggle by progressive forces. Deriding those concerned about racism as "Islamophiles" is rather suspicious.

Muslims are stupid, just as stupid as Jews, just as stupid as catholics, and all three groups have their own versions of radical sects who have their own little holes and hate EVERYTHING:
Hassydic Israeli
Evangelical Americans
Jihaudi Afghans
Soviet cogitations: 283
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 29 Apr 2009, 02:31
Unperson
Post 14 Jul 2009, 19:31
Quote:
Refusing to stand up for womens rights for fear of offending some patriachal reactionaries is alot worse than 'suspicious'.

Subordinating the movement for social progress and national-liberation to the bourgeois feminist movement is not only reactionary but is outright counter-revolutionary. Dogmatic sectarians who reject the unity of action with progressive and anti-imperialist forces on the basis of mistaken ideological orientations are at least reasonable people compared to the champions of bourgeois feminism who work to sabotage the struggle against imperialism. Bourgeois feminism is one of the weapons used today by reactionary chauvinist forces to try and defame the struggle of Muslims and Arabs for national liberation.
"Mama, I've sworn to myself not to chase girls until we've knocked off the bourgeoisie in the whole world."---Pavel Korchagin
Soviet cogitations: 3448
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 26 Jun 2006, 15:59
Ideology: Other Leftist
Party Bureaucrat
Post 14 Jul 2009, 20:01
You're really only proving my point about the irrationality of Islamophiles on the Left.
The moment one accepts the notion of 'totalitarianism', one is firmly locked within the liberal-democratic horizon. - Slavoj Žižek
Soviet cogitations: 283
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 29 Apr 2009, 02:31
Unperson
Post 15 Jul 2009, 05:30
Quote:
Yeah, because russians arn't racist at all.

That is not my point at all. I was highlighting the fact that the killer is an immigrant from Russia. Immigrants tend to be victimized by racism rather than being racism's victimizers.
"Mama, I've sworn to myself not to chase girls until we've knocked off the bourgeoisie in the whole world."---Pavel Korchagin
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 68
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 31 Mar 2009, 17:56
Pioneer
Post 15 Jul 2009, 06:38
The entire incident is shameful, especially for Germany (they really should've considered a little more security for their court), but I don't think it's an accurate measurement of human rights or inherent racism of any sort. A psychotic racist stabbed a woman to death in a court room. Germany didn't kill her, the Russian dude did. Yes, the German media was apathetic to it, but honestly, are you surprised that corporate media, often run by rich, white, conservative men would downplay the murder of a low-profile Muslim woman, a member of the people that are giving their buddies in the military contracting business as big a client of the US?

This isn't some huge "surge of fascism and racism" in the West. It's just another example of self-serving Capitalist media tendencies. Yes, there is racism, especially against Arabic individuals and communities, which isn't too surprising considering most of NATO is at war with at least one Middle Eastern country at the moment, but you're trying to make this into something it's not, i.e. a "line in the sand" drawn by Western Governments declaring war on all Arabs. In fact, BBC, and even a couple American networks have fairly good articles on the slaying and subsequent protests (Fox, of course, doesn't).

Quote:
The students chanted slogans “Death to the Zionist racist” and “Merkel, Merkel, Shame, Shame”.

They were also carrying placards saying: “Racism is always condemned”.


I find the irony inherent in blaming the murder on Jews and then saying racism is condemned more than amusing.

Quote:
Human rights are reactionary. I see no trouble with them missing.


Call me a scummy ol' Liberal (I am), but how are Human Rights reactionary? If you mean the perverted imperialist version, which serves capitalism, then I get your meaning, but there are plenty of basic rights human beings deserve. Please elaborate on this.

Quote:
Subordinating the movement for social progress and national-liberation to the bourgeois feminist movement is not only reactionary but is outright counter-revolutionary. Dogmatic sectarians who reject the unity of action with progressive and anti-imperialist forces on the basis of mistaken ideological orientations are at least reasonable people compared to the champions of bourgeois feminism who work to sabotage the struggle against imperialism. Bourgeois feminism is one of the weapons used today by reactionary chauvinist forces to try and defame the struggle of Muslims and Arabs for national liberation.


Do you get paid for this stuff? I want to know, really. Business has been a little slow for me and my friends lately and I've been looking for a way to get a little extra cash for college this fall.

Your buddies? The ones you so venomously defend as being "heroes of national liberation" in the Middle East? A lot of them are pants-shittingly oppressive to women and religious minorities, and even people who agree with them. In fact, they'd probably shoot any one of us on site on the sole virtue of our progressive tendencies. I'll give you credit for really sticking to your guns, but smearing feminists because they make implementing oppressive Sharia law more difficult is literally insulting to me as a human being. You are no Progressive. You do not believe in equality. In fact, I haven't the slightest idea what you believe in, but whatever it is, it scares the shit out of me.
Soviet cogitations: 10005
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
Ideology: Trotskyism
Philosophized
Post 15 Jul 2009, 13:45
Quote:
Call me a scummy ol' Liberal (I am), but how are Human Rights reactionary? If you mean the perverted imperialist version, which serves capitalism, then I get your meaning, but there are plenty of basic rights human beings deserve. Please elaborate on this.


The claim that "all human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights" (Universal Declaration of Human Rights) does not have a material basis. Instead, freedom, equality and dignity are legally proteted interests, which are, of course, to be secured by authority. In practice, this means that living and thinking and opening your mouth to say what you want is not natural, but a favor that the state has to grant to you.

Human rights, in fact, are an incredible presumption on part of the state: The government is quite proud to delight its subjects with all sorts of admissions. The political authority gives you the generous admission to be a human being. And if human existence is a government-licensed pleasure, support of this government is always a citizen's duty. This forced gratitude has to be displayed every time when the interests of politics and citizens collide.

This is why every constitution contains a little more than a short list of human rights. A consitution also determines just how these rights are to be ensured, and this, in turn, leads to the conclusion that rights are duties. Freedom of speech? Of course! But only as long as it's not "hate speech" or anything that doesn't fit the political agenda of the rulers. And the right to live - the protection of the people that live inside a state - demands military sevice!

Is the "right to live" seriously supposed to be worth anything? Am I supposed to be grateful for being allowed an existence that wasn't formed by any legal process anyway?

Or let's have a look at the ridiculous concept of "human dignity": The cultural achievement that has been rubberstamped by the government as "right to human dignity" just can't be complied with among normal people: To respect another human being just because you decide to overlook every detail that makes up his or her character. How does this even remotely make any sense?

I'd write more, but I don't have much time right now, so I'll just leave this here.
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
Soviet cogitations: 3448
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 26 Jun 2006, 15:59
Ideology: Other Leftist
Party Bureaucrat
Post 15 Jul 2009, 14:21
I wouldn't necessarily equate "human rights" with "natural rights".
The moment one accepts the notion of 'totalitarianism', one is firmly locked within the liberal-democratic horizon. - Slavoj Žižek
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 9306
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 02 Mar 2004, 15:19
Ideology: Other Leftist
Old Bolshevik
Post 15 Jul 2009, 14:24
Would someone PLEASE rescue me from this oppressive Scandinavian social democracy! Doesn't anyone see the oppression inherent in this system!?
Image

Fitzy wrote:
Yes, because I am poisoning them. They are my children.
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 68
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 31 Mar 2009, 17:56
Pioneer
Post 15 Jul 2009, 17:09
So, in other words, Mabool, once the revolution comes, everyone needs to just shut up and work because through some convoluted system of logic, granting the people little things like "rights" and "freedoms" is inherently inducting them into some kind of slavery?

What the hell do you propose? We slice the tongues out of everyone that doesn't sound off like Kupredu up there? And in case you don't remember, I'm rather sure that the Soviet Union had mandatory conscription throughout the cold war.

Maybe I'm just not getting your meaning, but if I understand it correctly, it looks like you're gunning for some terrible shit. I don't understand the concept of liberating the workers from wage slavery and then stripping away everything else they have.
Soviet cogitations: 3448
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 26 Jun 2006, 15:59
Ideology: Other Leftist
Party Bureaucrat
Post 15 Jul 2009, 17:27
Quote:
So, in other words, Mabool, once the revolution comes, everyone needs to just shut up and work because through some convoluted system of logic, granting the people little things like "rights" and "freedoms" is inherently inducting them into some kind of slavery?


I don't think he was contesting the idea that people should have rights, just the suggestion that they are inherent as opposed to granted by a state (and won through the people organised as a political force).
The moment one accepts the notion of 'totalitarianism', one is firmly locked within the liberal-democratic horizon. - Slavoj Žižek
Soviet cogitations: 10005
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
Ideology: Trotskyism
Philosophized
Post 15 Jul 2009, 19:13
Quote:
I don't think he was contesting the idea that people should have rights, just the suggestion that they are inherent as opposed to granted by a state (and won through the people organised as a political force).


Exactly. The concept of human rights is the concept of the bourgeoisie graciously "allowing" us to live, breathe and speak, and therefore it solidifies their complete dominance over our lives.

Quote:
So, in other words, Mabool, once the revolution comes, everyone needs to just shut up and work because through some convoluted system of logic, granting the people little things like "rights" and "freedoms" is inherently inducting them into some kind of slavery?


Of course not. When have I ever suggested anything like this? But if I were in a position to decide upon such matters in a socialist state, I'd just leave this bullshit out of the law. Why, exactly, is it necessary to constitutionally grant the "right to live" to people? They'll live anyway. And you can perfectly well outlaw things like the death penalty without resorting to such an abstract, idealist concept.

Quote:
What the hell do you propose? We slice the tongues out of everyone that doesn't sound off like Kupredu up there?


No, but we shouldn't be hypocrites about freedom of speech either. I do indeed propose to (figuratively, of course) slice the tongues out of everyone who publishes bourgeois propaganda, for instance.

Quote:
And in case you don't remember, I'm rather sure that the Soviet Union had mandatory conscription throughout the cold war.


And that was a very good thing. I just don't understand why they bought into the "right to live" bullshit then, when it's obvious that from their perspective (and mine too) an imperialist soldier lost his right to live in the very moment that he set foot on Soviet soil.

Quote:
Maybe I'm just not getting your meaning, but if I understand it correctly, it looks like you're gunning for some terrible shit.


Care to elaborate on the nature of this supposed terrible shit that I'm gunning for?

Quote:
Would someone PLEASE rescue me from this oppressive Scandinavian social democracy! Doesn't anyone see the oppression inherent in this system!?


The Red Army will do that some time. Hopefully.
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 68
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 31 Mar 2009, 17:56
Pioneer
Post 15 Jul 2009, 19:28
Quote:
Care to elaborate on the nature of this supposed terrible shit that I'm gunning for?


Not much, actually, now that what you meant has been thoroughly elaborated on. The thing is, I don't quite understand your reasoning with the abstractions of law and whatnot.
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 989
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 05 Jul 2004, 01:47
Komsomol
Post 18 Aug 2009, 20:48
Quote:
The murder of a pregnant Muslim girl in a German courtroom over the hijab was an atrocity demonstrating Islamophobia and an all-around absence of human rights in the so-called democracies of the West.


The West is a paradise for women compared to their treatment in Muslim countries. Those who complain exclusively about European "racism" show themselves to be narrow-minded racists.
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 865
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Jan 2007, 06:42
Komsomol
Post 18 Aug 2009, 23:08
Quote:
The West is a paradise for women compared to their treatment in Muslim countries. Those who complain exclusively about European "racism" show themselves to be narrow-minded racists.


And the West has a very narrow, if not altogether inadequate, understanding of gender roles in the Muslim world. Furthermore, it's useless to try and compare women in the West vs. women under Islam on the grounds that you're using Western, liberal, bourgeois standards as the barometer for how other peoples, who have undergone a distinctive social, cultural, economic and political development, ought to treat their women.

The bastardization and degradation of women that occurs under bourgeois-liberal society is by no means more desirable than any fundamentalist interpretation of Islam.
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Soviet cogitations: 10005
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
Ideology: Trotskyism
Philosophized
Post 17 Oct 2009, 16:03
The Western view is more progressive than the Arab one.

Want to know why? Because our productive forces are developed further than theirs.

End of. You're kind of presupposing that Western and Arab cultures are somehow on a par, while this is obviously not the case.
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
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