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Russian Trotskyists

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Soviet cogitations: 91
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 17 Feb 2006, 18:11
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Post 10 Apr 2006, 01:14
Does anyone know of any russian marxist-Leninist (trotskyist) parties?
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Soviet cogitations: 3033
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 29 Nov 2004, 20:06
Party Bureaucrat
Post 10 Apr 2006, 01:22
I post Here
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 01 Mar 2006, 08:59
Party Bureaucrat
Post 10 Apr 2006, 03:01
Quote:
Does anyone know of any russian marxist-Leninist (trotskyist) parties?


That is a contradiction in terms. No, seriously. 'Marxist-Leninist' as a term first came into use during the Stalin period of the USSR to describe the development of Marxist thought by V.I. Lenin, in order to differentiate it from the Social Democratic parties of the day which were ostensibly still Marxist as well. I don't know if Stalin himself coined the term but it has always been associated with the tradition of Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Mao and Hoxha.
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"To know a thing you must study it." --Dagoth Ur
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Dec 2004, 23:53
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 10 Apr 2006, 03:36
Just scroll down to Russia

Quote:
That is a contradiction in terms. No, seriously. 'Marxist-Leninist' as a term first came into use during the Stalin period of the USSR to describe the development of Marxist thought by V.I. Lenin, in order to differentiate it from the Social Democratic parties of the day which were ostensibly still Marxist as well.


Marxism-Leninism was used to describe the ideology of the communist parties after Lenin's death. During the Stalin period, Trotskyites said that he was not a Marxist-Leninist. So it is hard to say that Marxism-Leninism contradicts any communist ideology.

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I don't know if Stalin himself coined the term but it has always been associated with the tradition of Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Mao and Hoxha.


Marxism-Leninism is usually associated with Marx and Lenin. And the term was used after Lenin's death.
Last edited by Red Rebel on 10 Apr 2006, 23:11, edited 1 time in total.
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"By what standard of morality can the violence used by a slave to break his chains be considered the same as the violence of a slave master?" - Walter Rodney
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Soviet cogitations: 2693
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 01 Mar 2006, 08:59
Party Bureaucrat
Post 10 Apr 2006, 04:15
Quote:
Quote:
That is a contradiction in terms. No, seriously. 'Marxist-Leninist' as a term first came into use during the Stalin period of the USSR to describe the development of Marxist thought by V.I. Lenin, in order to differentiate it from the Social Democratic parties of the day which were ostensibly still Marxist as well.

Marxism-Leninism was used to describe the ideology of the communist parties after Lenin's death. During the Stalin period, Trotskyites said that he was not a Marxist-Leninist. So it is hard to say that Marxism-Leninism contradicts communist ideology.


No offense, but you don't have a fragging clue what your talking about. Why would a Trotskyist say that during the Stalin period? The term is completely foreign to the Trotskyist tradition. I know a dozens of Trots, and all of them describe themselves as "Bolsheviks", "Leninists", "Trotskyists", or some combination there-of. Any Trot group that does call itself Marxist-Leninist is suffering from historical amnesia thats for sure.

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I don't know if Stalin himself coined the term but it has always been associated with the tradition of Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Mao and Hoxha.

Marxism-Leninism is usually associated with Marx and Lenin. And the term was used after Lenin's death.


And your point is what? Mao once said, "No investigation, no right to speak." That pretty much is you right now, in spades. But then, for someone who is sympathetic to Trotsky to have a Che sig and a Che avatar, I guess its par for the course. By the way, guess who smashed the Cuban Trots after they tried to provoke an attack on Guantanamo Naval Base in 1960?
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"To know a thing you must study it." --Dagoth Ur
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Jun 2005, 23:39
Politburo
Post 10 Apr 2006, 10:43
Be nice.

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1. Respect the integrity of other forum members: Be civil and polite at all times
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'Soviet-Empire. 500% more methods than other leading brands.'
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Dec 2004, 23:53
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 10 Apr 2006, 23:33
Quote:
I know a dozens of Trots, and all of them describe themselves as "Bolsheviks", "Leninists", "Trotskyists", or some combination there-of. Any Trot group that does call itself Marxist-Leninist is suffering from historical amnesia thats for sure.


Still they are more or less Marxist-Leninist. The only reason the change their name is because they have one little difference with another group.

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And your point is what?


Marxist-Leninist = Marx + Lenin Its called humor.

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But then, for someone who is sympathetic to Trotsky to have a Che sig and a Che avatar, I guess its par for the course.


Check my ideology? What is it? Unlike most people on this site who are willing to pick some small section of communism and argue. I just call myself a communist. Che Guevara did something much similar which led to the failure of the Bolivian Revolution. He did not see the slit between the Russian supporters and the Chinise supporters in the Bolivian Communist Party.

I am not interested in dry economic socialism. We are fighting against misery, but we are also fighting against alienation. One of the fundamental objectives of Marxism is to remove interest, the factor of individual interest, and gain, from people's psychological motivations. Marx was preoccupied both with economic factors and with their repercussions on the spirit. If communism isn't interested in this too, it may be a method of distributing goods, but it will never be a revolutionary way of life.
Che Guevara

Quote:
By the way, guess who smashed the Cuban Trots after they tried to provoke an attack on Guantanamo Naval Base in 1960?


Enlighten me.
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"By what standard of morality can the violence used by a slave to break his chains be considered the same as the violence of a slave master?" - Walter Rodney
Soviet cogitations: 4394
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 16 Jun 2004, 17:30
Politburo
Post 11 Apr 2006, 11:46
I've known Trots who called themselves Marxist-Leninists - but the term that Trotsky always employed was

"Bolshevik-Leninist" The idea being that "Leninist" pretty much meant you were a Marxist anyway.

-TIG
Alis Volat Propriis; Tiocfaidh Ar La; Proletarier Aller Länder, Vereinigt Euch!
Soviet cogitations: 19
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 28 Oct 2006, 18:23
New Comrade (Say hi & be nice to me!)
Post 28 Oct 2006, 19:08
www.1917.com. a russian trotskyist group

Quote:
But then, for someone who is sympathetic to Trotsky to have a Che sig and a Che avatar, I guess its par for the course. By the way, guess who smashed the Cuban Trots after they tried to provoke an attack on Guantanamo Naval Base in 1960?


In actuality if you read Che's work instead of subscribing to his cult of personality. You would see that he had become very critical of Soviet socialism and the idea of socialism in one country. Hence his departure from Cuba to export revolution, an idea that was formulated by a man and written into a book many years before called "Permenant revolution" you should read it.
When Che was captured and killed, in his backpack a book was found, another important read in formulating the ideas of internationalism "The History of the Russian Revolution" written by none other than Leon Trotsky. Now Che's knowledge of internationalism was in it's early stages and he had applied it hap hazardly he nevertheless realized the mistakes of Soviet Russia after Lenin and the importance of Trotsky's work.
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Soviet cogitations: 2693
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 01 Mar 2006, 08:59
Party Bureaucrat
Post 30 Oct 2006, 00:56
Quote:
In actuality if you read Che's work instead of subscribing to his cult of personality.


In actuality if you read my posts you would see that I don't subscribe to a damn thing of Che's. He was a bog-standard Marxist-Leninist, and so am I. But I will defend his name against opportunistic acquisition by the Trots. Have you read the Che and Stalin thread?

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You would see that he had become very critical of Soviet socialism


True. He was more or less in the China-Albania camp versus the Warsaw Pact countries.

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and the idea of socialism in one country.


False. I don't suppose you could bless us with a scrap of evidence that this is the case?

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Hence his departure from Cuba to export revolution,


Does not follow.

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an idea that was formulated by a man and written into a book many years before called "Permenant revolution"


Oh, my. Are you saying Trotsky taught Marx, Engels, and Lenin the 'idea' of international revolution? Delightful!

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you should read it.


That nobody here has read your favorite dead-white-guy-with-beard's book is a little presumptious, don't you think?

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When Che was captured and killed, in his backpack a book was found, another important read in formulating the ideas of internationalism "The History of the Russian Revolution" written by none other than Leon Trotsky.


I'll be blunt. I don't believe you. Prove me wrong though. But even if it was true, it doesn't mean he subscribed to Trotsky's ideas. On the other hand, Che suppressed Posadas' POR and is on record stating his opposition to Trotskyism in M. Basmanov's Contemporary Trotskyism, and perhaps in his own writings as well.

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Now Che's knowledge of internationalism was in it's early
stages


Classic Trot arrogance
I'm sure he looked up to the glorious Trots when it came to internationalism... I mean what are his minor sacrifices in Cuba, Congo, Guatemala and Bolivia compared to the vast network of European and US cafes the Trots have conquered...


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and he had applied it hap hazardly


More arrogance...

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he nevertheless realize
d the mistakes of Soviet Russia after Lenin and the importance of Trotsky's work.


Evidence of said claim? If you can, please follow-up here.
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"To know a thing you must study it." --Dagoth Ur
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Soviet cogitations: 218
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Jun 2006, 00:25
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Post 21 Nov 2006, 09:32
Quote:
Classic Trot arrogance I'm sure he looked up to the glorious Trots when it came to internationalism... I mean what are his minor sacrifices in Cuba, Congo, Guatemala and Bolivia compared to the vast network of European and US cafes the Trots have conquered...


Haha, I got quite the chuckle since that reminded me of many of the Stalinist parties across the world. I like how they claim to be the vanguard of the working class, but sadly end up very ridged and forming blocs with the Capitalist parties… Especially with the heroic sacrifices, Stalin made for internationalism
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Soviet cogitations: 68
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 02 Dec 2006, 08:09
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Post 03 Dec 2006, 01:12
As far as I know, the majority of Marxist-Leninists in Russia are what some would describe as 'Stalinists' rather than Trotskyists.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 13 Jan 2007, 05:20
Pioneer
Post 13 Jan 2007, 05:53
deleted
Last edited by DylanF on 19 May 2007, 02:03, edited 1 time in total.
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Soviet cogitations: 647
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Jun 2005, 18:01
Komsomol
Post 23 Jan 2007, 17:43
Trotskyites in Russia are still seen as enemies to the working people. The great Russian workers will never forget that Trotsky supported the Nazis and believed Soviets to be inferior to Westerners.
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