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Elections in Canada: Boycott this bourgeois scam!

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Soviet cogitations: 7674
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Nov 2004, 02:08
Embalmed
Post 28 Dec 2005, 23:09
your type I hate the most, blood hungry for conflict and glorious revolution bringing in a new future for the country, right?

Whoever posted above pointing out we are NOT nepal, or China, or the States, we are CANADA is right. We are a country not strictly built on bloody and revolution, nore are we a blood thirsty people.

Canada is too peaceful, friendly, and liked to have armed conflict occour in it, If some idiot MLM group started shooting not only would we have C7's ready, but JTF2, and the UN, NATO, and NORAD all on standby.

If you honestly think boycotting an election would do any good, and then start armed conflict, I would like to see you at a shooting range and we will see how well prepped you are in comparison to even a resurvist.

Get your shit together, Communism needs a new image, one with less blood, and more togetherness, there is no way in hell armed conflict will go in this country, and there is no way boycotting an election will do us any good either.
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Soviet cogitations: 252
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Apr 2005, 02:28
Unperson
Post 29 Dec 2005, 00:30
Okay Canuck, you're just weird and uninformed.

I don't reject revolution. I support all progressive fighting forces in the world, if you look at the communist party of Peru, they did participate in election before the split, patria roja are revisionists but they don't participate in elections. In Nepal communists are illeagal so they cannot run. A lot of Maoists I talked to call half of the revolutionary fighting for socialism, revisionists, Marxist-Leninists like FARC-EP, Anarchists like the Zapatistas and ELN, all non-maoists fighting in Peru, all non-maoists fighting in Turkey and I'm not talking about the nationists, They called the greeks and the Portuguese revisionists when they had their civil wars. and so on.

the RCP in the USA has existed since the 1970s, they don't claim to be the organized vanguard of the working class, why not condemn your maoist friends for not leading a revolution yet?

Our party has no interest in winning the bourgeious elections, we think they are a bunch of bs. But really myself I don't have a strong opinion either way, vote or don't vote, I think voting for progressive people in the meantime instead of handing out leaflets to old folks saying "Did you know the revisionist scum communist party support voting this election?" and expecting this as a response "Damn sonny your right I never did like those communist party members, how do I get involved with the RCP?"
Soviet cogitations: 7674
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Nov 2004, 02:08
Embalmed
Post 29 Dec 2005, 01:02
all im getting at is armed conflict wont get anyone anywhere and we should respect the current democratic system.
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Soviet cogitations: 1925
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 12 Jul 2005, 01:11
Party Member
Post 29 Dec 2005, 01:26
I think the main idea is that:

Government - Capitalism = armed conflict

Its not that armed conflict is what we WANT, its just that its inevitable. Revolutions are a massive waste of resources but nevertheless are necessary.

I think for a communist party to take part in elections in Canada it this point is totally rediculous... what can it accomplish? Partaking in elections while a mass revolutionary movement is mobilizing is a different story however, because at that time the masses are organized as an authority and therefore when reform fails (and it will) it will only contribute to the revolutionary struggle.
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Soviet cogitations: 59
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Jun 2003, 15:32
Pioneer
Post 29 Dec 2005, 01:36
despite i'm not canadian, and don't know your reality... i disagree with RCP...

potential communist voters which don't vote, are helping right wing parties to get easier to power. and that's all...

such an action, as a protest, could only have any positive effect if the RCP was already large enough to galvanize the majority of canadians.
Imagine if half the pop didn't vote because they don't agree with the system... then it would have a purpose, and would open a possibility for a change.
That change doesn't have to be violent, we can change the system by peaceful means, peaceful revolutions do exist.

the point is... at the present circunstances it will help the capitalists...

if you work to gain influence and power in the parliment, in local power, then you have the means to begin a change and help your people
We call for your cooperation, in the hard but passionate struggle for a new society, where there’s no place for the exploitation of men by man, where conscious and free we shall build our own future, with Socialism and Communism!
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Soviet cogitations: 1925
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 12 Jul 2005, 01:11
Party Member
Post 29 Dec 2005, 01:44
Quote:
peaceful revolutions do exist.


Nope.. changing the faces of the system through peaceful means exists. a REVOLUTION however cannot be peaceful because no matter how passive you are in the act, you are still telling the old guard 'your services are no longer needed and you will now become the scum of our new society'
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Soviet cogitations: 252
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Apr 2005, 02:28
Unperson
Post 29 Dec 2005, 01:45
Okay, I for one don't believe revolution is a tea party. like these other guys.

The election does 2 things for us, it builds our organization and it brings in finances. In debates we get our message out. The law allows us to leaflet in apartment buildings during elections as when we're outside elections we can't enter apartment buildings, and so on. So I mean there is a point to participating in elections. If we really wanted to we could run 300 candiates in the election, but theres no real point to that.
Soviet cogitations: 7674
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Nov 2004, 02:08
Embalmed
Post 29 Dec 2005, 03:28
well combine the CPC and MLP and its near 200 isnt it?
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Soviet cogitations: 252
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Apr 2005, 02:28
Unperson
Post 29 Dec 2005, 05:14
no about 90.
Soviet cogitations: 7674
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Nov 2004, 02:08
Embalmed
Post 29 Dec 2005, 06:37
wow arnt my numbers off :P
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Soviet cogitations: 647
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Jun 2005, 18:01
Komsomol
Post 02 Jan 2006, 03:52
There is no revolutionary class in Canada; or at least one that can vote in bourgeois elections.
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Soviet cogitations: 1925
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 12 Jul 2005, 01:11
Party Member
Post 02 Jan 2006, 04:20
Quote:
potential communist voters which don't vote, are helping right wing parties to get easier to power. and that's all...


So what you're saying is that communists should vote for certain right winged parties so that other right winged parties dont come to power?
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Soviet cogitations: 7674
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Nov 2004, 02:08
Embalmed
Post 02 Jan 2006, 21:52
just because a group is active in federal elections doesnt make them right wing, can you honestly say that the NDP is right wing? Theres no kidding that as of now our house is dominated by centeral-right wing parties, but before the more left-wing parties were even in federal politics it was a degreeing scale of Right, in time the left was introduced, and elivated by tom douglas(personal opinion).

If we all just tried gaining power by revolution, or forceful ways we would be no better than the ruling class. Following the democratic system, one which we want to give to the people is the way to go. Not only will it bring fourth the party to the public sphere, in the ways of which the green party did, but it will show that not all communists demand revolution.
Pat
[+-]
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Soviet cogitations: 5520
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Jun 2004, 21:22
Embalmed
Post 02 Jan 2006, 22:55
You can't say that our nation has no democracy at all. Of course we face the same undemocratic problems from capitalism and flaws in our checks and balances.

For example, we might get a childcare program if we vote for the NDP. Gays could be legally able to marry if we get more NDP and Liberal (even the Bloc Québequois) MPs into the house instead of Conservatives.

They're all capitalist, and will make decisions that can hurt the proletariat or lead us on the wrong path, but its worth it to vote for short term gains, if the election is as 'issue driven' as it is this time.

I'm sure the proletariat is would rather have a chance at feeding themselves properly, and giving their families a good life, by possibly delaying the revolution they are not ready for.
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I hope this doesn't get me banned again-Fontis
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Soviet cogitations: 1925
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 12 Jul 2005, 01:11
Party Member
Post 03 Jan 2006, 02:25
Quote:
just because a group is active in federal elections doesnt make them right wing


Everything is relative, I'm speaking from a communistic standpoint. If a political party is for upholding the capitalist system or even softening the touch of a capitalist system, then yes, it is right winged. It is right winged because it doesnt want to break the old order to bring in the new, it only wants to mold the same old system to suit whatever parties needs.
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Pat
[+-]
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Soviet cogitations: 5520
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Jun 2004, 21:22
Embalmed
Post 03 Jan 2006, 02:39
It is still a good idea to make the conditions of the working class easier by voting in a less right wing party, which has plans to help the less fortunate.

What should happen is the scenario that you earlier described. People with the proper knowledge, people will go for the left-wing party, and once they aren't given it, they'll have a decision to make, on whether or not they want democracy.
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I hope this doesn't get me banned again-Fontis
Soviet cogitations: 59
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Jun 2003, 15:32
Pioneer
Post 03 Jan 2006, 18:02
be pragmatic...

what is the effect of not voting in this election?
what is it?

just tell me that... how many non voters, to have any impact?

we live in a capitalist society, we have to fight them with what we got NOW!
Of course we want more, so much more! but we can't... we still don't have the conditions... and conditions might get worse if we don't defend what is still left!

These are not times of progress, conquest or advances... we are struggling to defend, to resist!
You want to take berlin when stalingrad is in a siege!

that's the whole point... how can we create the conditions for a sucesseful revolution? That is our permanent strugle... political power is only a small tool to defend ourselves...
We call for your cooperation, in the hard but passionate struggle for a new society, where there’s no place for the exploitation of men by man, where conscious and free we shall build our own future, with Socialism and Communism!
Soviet cogitations: 23
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 20 Dec 2005, 05:38
Pioneer
Post 10 Jan 2006, 17:14
I suggest that you read this article:

To boycott is to fight!

*****
Last edited by webmaster-rcp on 10 Jan 2006, 18:08, edited 1 time in total.
Soviet cogitations: 7674
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Nov 2004, 02:08
Embalmed
Post 10 Jan 2006, 17:47
Quote:
I suggest that you all read this article:

To boycott is to fight!

*****
so what? We have a Canadian version of Revcom and Chairman Bob now?
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Soviet cogitations: 4177
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 18 Sep 2004, 16:21
Politburo
Post 10 Jan 2006, 18:14
To vote or not to vote....

This question was addressed by Lenin nearly a century ago, just after the October Revolution. I suggest you read his article, Left Wing Communism: An Infantile Disorder. Note especially the chapter entitled 'Should we Participate in Bourgeois Parliaments?'

Here is what Lenin has to say:

Quote:
It is with the utmost contempt—and the utmost levity—that the German "Left" Communists reply to this question in the negative. Their arguments? In the passage quoted above we read:

"... All reversion to parliamentary forms of struggle, which have become historically and politically obsolete, must be emphatically rejected" [[__ Rjc: Could be incomplete here; check __]]

This is said with ridiculous pretentiousness, and is patently wrong. "Reversion" to parliamentarianism, forsooth! Perhaps there is already a Soviet republic in Germany? It does not look like it! How, then, can one speak of "reversion"? Is this not an empty phrase?

Parliamentarianism has become "historically obsolete". That is true in the propaganda sense. However, everybody knows that this is still a far cry from overcoming it in practice. Capitalism could have been declared—and with full justice—to be "historically obsolete" many decades ago, but that does not at all remove the need for a very long and very persistent struggle on the basis of capitalism. Parliamentarianism is "historically obsolete" from the standpoint of world history, i.e., the era of bourgeois parliamentarianism is over, and the era of the proletarian dictatorship has begun. That is incontestable. But world history is counted in decades. Ten or twenty years earlier or later makes no difference when measured with the yardstick of world history; from the standpoint of world history it is a trifle that cannot be considered even approximately. But for that very reason, it is a glaring theoretical error to apply the yardstick of world history to practical politics.

Is parliamentarianism "politically obsolete"? That is quite a different matter. If that were true, the position of the "Lefts" would be a strong one. But it has to be proved by a most searching analysis, and the "Lefts" do not even know how to approach the matter. In the "Theses on Parliamentarianism", published in the Bulletin of the Provisional Bureau in Amsterdam of the Communist International No. 1, February 1920, and obviously expressing the Dutch-Left or Left-Dutch strivings, the analysis, as we shall see, is also hopelessly poor.

In the first place, contrary to the opinion of such outstanding political leaders as Rosa Luxemburg and Karl Liebknecht, the German "Lefts", as we know, considered parliamentarianism "politically obsolete" even in January 1919. We know that the "Lefts" were mistaken. This fact alone utterly destroys, at a single stroke, the proposition that parliamentarianism is "politically obsolete". It is for the "Lefts" to prove why their error, indisputable at that time, is no longer an error. They do not and cannot produce even a shred of proof. A political party’s attitude towards its own mistakes is one of the most important and surest ways of judging how earnest the party is and how it fulfils in practice its obligations towards its class and the working people. Frankly acknowledging a mistake, ascertaining the reasons for it, analysing the conditions that have led up to it, and thrashing out the means of its rectification -- that is the hallmark of a serious party; that is how it should perform its duties, and how it should educate and train its class, and then the masses. By failing to fulfil this duty and give the utmost attention and consideration to the study of their patent error, the "Lefts" in Germany (and in Holland) have proved that they are not a party of a class, but a circle, not a party of the masses, but a group of intellectualists and of a few workers who ape the worst features of intellectualism.


And his conclusion?

Quote:
Third, the "Left" Communists have a great deal to say in praise of us Bolsheviks. One sometimes feels like telling them to praise us less and to try to get a better knowledge of the Bolsheviks’ tactics. We took part in the elections to the Constituent Assembly, the Russian bourgeois parliament in September-November 1917. Were our tactics correct or not? If not, then this should be clearly stated and proved, for it is necessary in evolving the correct tactics for international communism. If they were correct, then certain conclusions must be drawn. Of course, there can be no question of placing conditions in Russia on a par with conditions in Western Europe. But as regards the particular question of the meaning of the concept that "parliamentarianism has become politically obsolete", due account should be taken of our experience, for unless concrete experience is taken into account such concepts very easily turn into empty phrases. In September-November 1917, did we, the Russian Bolsheviks, not have more right than any Western Communists to consider that parliamentarianism was politically obsolete in Russia? Of course we did, for the point is not whether bourgeois parliaments have existed for a long time or a short time, but how far the masses of the working people are prepared (ideologically, politically and practically) to accept the Soviet system and to dissolve the bourgeois-democratic parliament (or allow it to be dissolved). It is an absolutely incontestable and fully established historical fact that, in September-November 1917, the urban working class and the soldiers and peasants of Russia were, because of a number of special conditions, exceptionally well prepared to accept the Soviet system and to disband the most democratic of bourgeois parliaments. Nevertheless, the Bolsheviks did not boycott the Constituent Assembly, but took part in the elections both before and after the proletariat conquered political power. That these elections yielded exceedingly valuable (and to the proletariat, highly useful) political results has, I make bold to hope, been proved by me in the above-mentioned article, which analyses in detail the returns of the elections to the Constituent Assembly in Russia.

The conclusion which follows from this is absolutely incontrovertible: it has been proved that, far from causing harm to the revolutionary proletariat, participation in a bourgeois-democratic parliament, even a few weeks before - the victory of a Soviet republic and even after such a victory, actually helps that proletariat to prove to the backward masses why such parliaments deserve to be done away with; it facilitates their successful dissolution, and helps to make bourgeois parliamentarianism "politically obsolete". To ignore this experience, while at the same time claiming affiliation to the Communist International, which must work out its tactics internationally (not as narrow or exclusively national tactics, but as international tactics), means committing a gross error and actually abandoning internationalism in deed, while recognising it in word.


You call yourselves 'Marxist-Leninists', yet you seem to be unaware of what Lenin actually thought and wrote.
"Comrade Lenin left us a great legacy, and we fucкed it up." - Josef Stalin
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