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Should I join CPUSA?

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Soviet cogitations: 50
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 27 Feb 2014, 05:02
Ideology: Trotskyism
Pioneer
Post 14 May 2014, 21:37
Just a few quick questions (maybe).
1. What is the general opinion (of the Soviet Empire, and over all communist community) on CPUSA?
2. Should I join?
3. Why, or why not?

I've heard some good things and bad about the CPUSA; for example, I've heard the they just turned into a group of Democrats (U.S. Political party), and believe that B. Obama is a socialist.
What a joke.
While the state exists, there can be no freedom. When there is freedom there will be no state. - V. I. Lenin
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Soviet cogitations: 3618
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 22 Oct 2004, 15:15
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Politburo
Post 14 May 2014, 23:50
I don't live in the USA, so I can't comment on what they actually do in practice. Even if the whole thing about the Democrats is true, what if they happen to be the most well-organised and doing the best work in your area? That could be a consideration.

Other than that, normally joining a communist party is a serious commitment. I don't know if this holds for the CPUSA as well, but if not, it should. A real communist party doesn't do revolving-door internet recruitment, but it expects its members to get active, and offers them hands-on education. So under those circumstances, I would never join an organisation unless I had a clear view of what this would mean.

But it should always be possible to simply give the party a phonecall, visit them or have them visit you, have them send you some literature, attend events, get involved with a front organisation like the youth league if you're younger, etc., and generally be an active or semi-active sympathiser until your mind is made up. That's always better than just jumping in.

I don't think they consider Obama a socialist, in any case. Their position on the Democrats, which seems misguided and opportunistic to me, is presented as purely tactical.

At the moment, the CPUSA happen to be in their pre-Congress discussion period, so there are loads and loads of discussion articles about what the future line should be. It remains to be seen what will actually happen at the Congress (in June). You should read some of the articles and see if they can help you make up your mind. Also a few other, more critical articles at the top of this page.
Soviet cogitations: 674
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 01 Mar 2011, 14:10
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Komsomol
Post 15 May 2014, 04:57
The CPUSA has been in bed with the Democrats for decades. When the Vietnam War was ongoing they attacked the call for the immediate withdrawal of all US forces as "ultra-left," instead favoring a "negotiated solution" to the conflict because this would allow them to work more closely with "progressive" Democratic congressmen and senators.

They also praised JFK's Presidency, which you can see here: viewtopic.php?f=110&t=53893

The only value the CPUSA has is that their publishing arm, International Publishers, has put out interesting books, although many of the interesting ones are no longer printed by them.
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Soviet cogitations: 589
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Dec 2013, 14:24
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Unperson
Post 15 May 2014, 10:32
Red Specter wrote:
Just a few quick questions (maybe).
1. What is the general opinion (of the Soviet Empire, and over all communist community) on CPUSA?
2. Should I join?
3. Why, or why not?

I've heard some good things and bad about the CPUSA; for example, I've heard the they just turned into a group of Democrats (U.S. Political party), and believe that B. Obama is a socialist. :| What a joke.


Just about every 'communist' political paper in the UK cheered when Obama won both elections. Saying it was a victory for the US working class.

The bad things I have heard about the CPUSA is that they believed that the USSR and the Eastern European states were communist. Ugh.

I'd never join any communist party, due to the costs and that they are always only communist in name only and usually have a programme of left-wing reformism.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 27 Feb 2014, 05:02
Ideology: Trotskyism
Pioneer
Post 15 May 2014, 21:42
Yami wrote:

The bad things I have heard about the CPUSA is that they believed that the USSR and the Eastern European states were communist. Ugh.



I've heard these claims from CPUSA as well; complete bollocks if you ask me.
I've also heard CP members praising the DPRK as well.
While the state exists, there can be no freedom. When there is freedom there will be no state. - V. I. Lenin
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Sep 2006, 22:05
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 16 May 2014, 04:42
"Communists" who oppose existing socialism are objectively on the side of Imperialism.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 27 Feb 2014, 05:02
Ideology: Trotskyism
Pioneer
Post 16 May 2014, 11:57
Dagoth Ur wrote:
"Communists" who oppose existing socialism are objectively on the side of Imperialism.

I agree, to an extant, but it is these said "communist" who are/was in control of said "socialist" countries that turn out to be fascists, that want nothing more but to establish a bureaucracy.
Speaking on the DPRK, and Stalin's USSR.
While the state exists, there can be no freedom. When there is freedom there will be no state. - V. I. Lenin
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Sep 2006, 22:05
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 16 May 2014, 12:04
The guy you have in your avatar would totally disagree with you analysis of there being any worker's nation that was fascist. His definition of fascism was that they were the people who were employed by the bourgeoisie to uphold private property (a correct analysis to be sure). Just because you don't like Stalin or Kim Jong-un doesn't make them fascist. Stalin was, to the grave, a committed Marxist.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 27 Feb 2014, 05:02
Ideology: Trotskyism
Pioneer
Post 16 May 2014, 13:12
Dagoth Ur wrote:
His definition of fascism was that they were the people who were employed by the bourgeoisie to uphold private property (a correct analysis to be sure).

I know, and agree with Trotsky on the subject. I apologize for my use of the word "Fascism", but unfortunately fascism, and fascist have become blanket terms used by the left, the same way the west uses "communism & communists."
Dagoth Ur wrote:
Just because you don't like Stalin or Kim Jong-un doesn't make them fascist. Stalin was, to the grave, a committed Marxist.

I most defiantly believe that Trotsky would agree on my statement about Stalin's bureaucracy, and if the man were alive, he'd also take my side on the DPRK. Considering he denounced Stalin his entire life after his exile, and ultimately loosing his life because of his distaste for Stalin.
But when it comes down to it, I'm not here to please ma, and pop, my opinion is my own.
While the state exists, there can be no freedom. When there is freedom there will be no state. - V. I. Lenin
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Sep 2006, 22:05
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 16 May 2014, 13:34
Trotsky consistently defended Stalin's USSR against all imperialists. It only stands to reason that Trotsky would defend the DPRK from imperialists while also aiming for an internal political revolution.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Dec 2013, 14:24
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Unperson
Post 16 May 2014, 13:37
Red Specter, do you know what position the CPUSA take on the Kronstadt rebellion?
Are they for or against what happened in March 1921? If they were for the suppression which points of the Petropavlovsk resolution did they disagree with?
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Soviet cogitations: 589
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Dec 2013, 14:24
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Unperson
Post 16 May 2014, 14:56
Dagoth Ur wrote:
Trotsky consistently defended Stalin's USSR against all imperialists. It only stands to reason that Trotsky would defend the DPRK from imperialists while also aiming for an internal political revolution.


How could anyone defend this?

This has to be the worst place in the World to live in, well if you could it a living. more like a miserable existance.
Funny how no one wants to leave an 'imperialist' power to go live in the DPRK

http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/stories/s546004.htm
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 27 Feb 2014, 05:02
Ideology: Trotskyism
Pioneer
Post 16 May 2014, 15:14
I'm not sure about the CPUSA's opioin on the Kronstadt rebellion, but I do know Trotsky's. He believed it was a failed imperialist attempt to close in on Petrograd. That being siad I believe that CPUSA would have supported the descion to spurr the revolt. Although I believe that the rebels had legitimate demands from the Bolsheviks.

Here's a link to Trotsky paper on the events:
http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky ... y/ch61.htm
While the state exists, there can be no freedom. When there is freedom there will be no state. - V. I. Lenin
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Aug 2010, 14:21
Party Bureaucrat
Post 16 May 2014, 20:39
Considering your opinions, you shouldn't join the CPUSA. Join a trotskyist organization instead, or something else.

Quote:
Trotsky consistently defended Stalin's USSR against all imperialists.

You have been deceived by Trotsky. Even though Trotsky talked a lot about the "defense" of the USSR, if you read his last works, you will see that, according to him, "defending" the USSR meant making an anti-Stalin uprising, and overthrowing his so-called "bureaucracy", even in the middle of a war against Nazi Germany or other imperialist countries. This can hardly be called a "defense".
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"Fishing is part of agriculture" Gred
"Loz, you are like me" Yami
"I am one of the better read Marxists on this site" Gred
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Sep 2006, 22:05
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 16 May 2014, 21:31
Yeah but according to Trotsky this was only acceptable if it was an organic act of the Soviet people. This task could not possibly be achieved by imperialists.
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Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
Philosophized
Post 17 May 2014, 10:53
Quote:
You have been deceived by Trotsky. Even though Trotsky talked a lot about the "defense" of the USSR, if you read his last works, you will see that, according to him, "defending" the USSR meant making an anti-Stalin uprising, and overthrowing his so-called "bureaucracy", even in the middle of a war against Nazi Germany or other imperialist countries. This can hardly be called a "defense".

Source?
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Soviet cogitations: 2293
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Aug 2010, 14:21
Party Bureaucrat
Post 17 May 2014, 17:15
"Against the imperialist foe we will defend the USSR with all our might. However, the conquests of the October revolution will serve the people only if they prove themselves capable of dealing with the Stalinist bureaucracy, as in their day they dealt with the Tsarist bureaucracy and the bourgeoisie."

http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky ... orkers.htm

http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky ... sr-war.htm

Mistakes on the question of defense of the USSR most frequently flow from an incorrect understanding of the methods of “defense”. [...]

We are not a government party; we are the party of irreconcilable opposition, not only in capitalist countries but also in the USSR. Our tasks, among them the “defense of the USSR”, we realize not through the medium of bourgeois governments and not even through the government of the USSR, but exclusively through the education of the masses through agitation, through explaining to the workers what they should defend and what they should overthrow. Such a “defense” cannot give immediate miraculous results (LMAO !!!). But we do not even pretend to be miracle workers. As things stand, we are a revolutionary minority. Our work must be directed so that the workers on whom we have influence should correctly appraise events, not permit themselves to be caught unawares, and prepare the general sentiment of their own class for the revolutionary solution of the tasks confronting us.

The defense of the USSR coincides for us with the preparation of world revolution. Only those methods are permissible which do not conflict with the interests of the revolution. The defense of the USSR is related to the world socialist revolution as a tactical task is related to a strategic one. A tactic is subordinated to a strategic goal and in no case can be in contradiction to the latter.


Enough! Icepick that fool!
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"Fishing is part of agriculture" Gred
"Loz, you are like me" Yami
"I am one of the better read Marxists on this site" Gred
Soviet cogitations: 674
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 01 Mar 2011, 14:10
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Komsomol
Post 18 May 2014, 22:59
Yami wrote:
Red Specter, do you know what position the CPUSA take on the Kronstadt rebellion?
Are they for or against what happened in March 1921? If they were for the suppression which points of the Petropavlovsk resolution did they disagree with?
I'd imagine the CPUSA's line on Kronstadt is the same as it was in 1921: that it was an objectively counter-revolutionary uprising that hid behind "proletarian" rhetoric, but whose membership was based on the peasantry and reflected its outlook.
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Soviet cogitations: 15
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 02 Jun 2014, 03:12
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
New Comrade (Say hi & be nice to me!)
Post 25 Jun 2014, 05:12
Seriously, i can't be bothered reading all these bizarre either 1) Capitalist reasons against joining CPUSA! 2) Sectarian Trotskyite reasons for not join going the CPUSA (the "Trots" are so much more "revolutionary" than anyone on earth - they have just been stopped at every turn by actual Working Class Revolutions!).

If it comes down to someone being an active member of the CPUSA and agitating in their neighborhood and workplace to try and win them to progressive politics - then great!

- or some dumbass fantasist who has watched a few YouTube videos of some nutter who claims he is the new Stalin or Enver Hoxha reborn and they slander everyone as a "revisionist"!

All power to genuine folks!
"When I feed the hungry, they call me a saint. When I ask why people are hungry, they call me a Communist." Dom Helder Camara, Brazilian Archbishop

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Soviet cogitations: 50
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 27 Feb 2014, 05:02
Ideology: Trotskyism
Pioneer
Post 01 Jul 2014, 20:52
Why are the last 3 posts gone? Censorship maybe?

The mod considered them off topic and removed them, as it will happen with this post. Stick to the topic and no post will be deleted.
To ask for these things, there is a whole forum: "Let's work harder comrades!". - Che B.
While the state exists, there can be no freedom. When there is freedom there will be no state. - V. I. Lenin
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