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Vote Labour?

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Soviet cogitations: 589
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Dec 2013, 14:24
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Unperson
Post 21 Jan 2014, 23:12
http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-fb ... -do-to-win

What is it with communist parties and their love of Labour parties?

Does anyone still believe that voting labour is the path to socialism/communism?

Moreover, you should see the headlines of these papers when the Labour party is in power! They still moan..."we never asked for this!". Erm...yes you did.

Vote Labour? Who they trying to kid?
Soviet cogitations: 1128
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Aug 2008, 18:12
Party Member
Post 22 Jan 2014, 00:39
It annoys me too. They envy the labour party because of its links to the trade union movement and the fact so many working class people vote for it. The trouble is the labour party has always been a bourgeois party and when push comes to shove, it won't tolerate any attempts to make it Marxist from the inside.
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User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 3618
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 22 Oct 2004, 15:15
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Politburo
Post 22 Jan 2014, 01:14
The author is a Labour MP. He's not exactly going to tell people not to vote for him.
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Soviet cogitations: 589
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Dec 2013, 14:24
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Unperson
Post 22 Jan 2014, 10:45
No 14 wrote:
The author is a Labour MP. He's not exactly going to tell people not to vote for him.

LOL...true, but why allow the Labour party to campaign for a election victory in the “house” paper of the CPB? Logic would dictate the only UK party they would ask its readers to vote for would be itself. Or does that show a crisis of confidence in its own candidates? Or is the Labour party really full of commies?
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Soviet cogitations: 6211
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 04 Aug 2004, 20:49
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Embalmed
Post 22 Jan 2014, 11:47
The LP has some remains of socialist organisations within it like the LRC, the battle for supremacy has not yet been totally won within the federation. Examples are the LRC and the SCG, of which Meacher is a part. To talk of a singular body is a nonsense.

One of the points Michael Meacher makes here is that the LP should become a democratic organisation, something it has never really been before. Though that goes without saying for pretty much every political party in history. There is a top down approach to imposing points of policy that people should stand for from the NEC and other central policy committees whose elections are not very widely publicised with compared to local, CLP hustings. Another case of this is the PLP imposing a candidate that the local CLP in Falkirk simply didn't want.

You talk to a lot of LP members and you'll find a strong sense of socialism, social justice and a striving for economic control, yet this is never reflected in the centre. It's quite a shame, as Meacher represents the type of strongly democratic socialist politician that quite a lot of us in the LP would gladly fill the house with.
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"Phil Spector is haunting Europe" -Dr. Karl H. Marx
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Soviet cogitations: 589
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Dec 2013, 14:24
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Unperson
Post 22 Jan 2014, 13:09
Erichs_Pastry_Chef wrote:
The LP has some remains of socialist organisations within it like the LRC, the battle for supremacy has not yet been totally won within the federation. Examples are the LRC and the SCG, of which Meacher is a part. To talk of a singular body is a nonsense.

One of the points Michael Meacher makes here is that the LP should become a democratic organisation, something it has never really been before. Though that goes without saying for pretty much every political party in history. There is a top down approach to imposing points of policy that people should stand for from the NEC and other central policy committees whose elections are not very widely publicised with compared to local, CLP hustings. Another case of this is the PLP imposing a candidate that the local CLP in Falkirk simply didn't want.

You talk to a lot of LP members and you'll find a strong sense of socialism, social justice and a striving for economic control, yet this is never reflected in the centre. It's quite a shame, as Meacher represents the type of strongly democratic socialist politician that quite a lot of us in the LP would gladly fill the house with.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_general_election_(UK)

I think the Labour Party still has nightmares about the time they tried to fill the HOP with left-wing MPs.
Took 'em another 14 years to get back in power. You really expect them to make the same mistake twice?
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Soviet cogitations: 6211
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 04 Aug 2004, 20:49
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Embalmed
Post 22 Jan 2014, 13:45
The people have spoken, the British people are by and large "small c conservatives," have you not come to understand this? It's hard, but you can influence the way people think if you don't come across to them posing an all-or-nothing choice of "full socialism now!" or "evil/barbarism/(insert false dichotomy here)!"
Large parts of the LP's membership are still socialist. It's just the tactics of the centre that I mentioned that are responsible for this, not what large parts of the party want. Are you having difficulties in understanding this?
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"Phil Spector is haunting Europe" -Dr. Karl H. Marx
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Soviet cogitations: 589
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Dec 2013, 14:24
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Unperson
Post 22 Jan 2014, 15:07
I thought they expelled the militant tendency?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militant_tendency

What do they call themselves now? Those socialists in the LP?

I thought this would be your ideal model for a socialist party or have I got that wrong too?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_ ... of_Germany
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Soviet cogitations: 6211
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 04 Aug 2004, 20:49
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Embalmed
Post 22 Jan 2014, 17:46
Can you not read or do you actually choose to totally ignore what other people write? Socialist Campaign Group and the Labour Representation Committee, as stated above by their well-known initials. Come on, for someone who reads the Morning Star as frequently as you do, you should know all about them!
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"Phil Spector is haunting Europe" -Dr. Karl H. Marx
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Soviet cogitations: 589
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Dec 2013, 14:24
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Unperson
Post 23 Jan 2014, 12:56
Yeah but I stopped, years ago, labelling those that want to re-nationalise & spend more on welfare socialists.
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Soviet cogitations: 589
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Dec 2013, 14:24
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Unperson
Post 03 Feb 2014, 17:35
Front page of the Morning Star:

Labour must keep left to survive.

Which is rubbish as elections are lost not won so if they get back into power it will be down more to the unpopularity of the coalition than their policies, but there is a still this lunatic thinking that the first step towards socialism is voting in a left-wing labour government, probably similar to the one elected in 1945, you know nearly 70 years ago that lasted barely 5 years and here we are in 2014 no nearer to socialism than we were back then.
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Soviet cogitations: 238
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 12 Jun 2011, 15:14
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Pioneer
Post 06 Apr 2014, 21:44
Yami wrote:
I thought they expelled the militant tendency?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militant_tendency

What do they call themselves now? Those socialists in the LP?

I thought this would be your ideal model for a socialist party or have I got that wrong too?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_ ... of_Germany

There is the Co-operative Party, which works to further principles of Co-operative economics, within the Labour Party. And actually my ideal political party would be like the Left Party of Germany, which is multi-tendency. entryism might have it's place, if practicable. And in the Communist Manifesto, it says this,
Quote:
"The Communists do not form a separate party opposed to the other working-class parties.

They have no interests separate and apart from those of the proletariat as a whole.

They do not set up any sectarian principles of their own, by which to shape and mold the proletarian movement."
But I also do not think that the left should simply reduced to the lowest common denominator of agreement. So, if there is constituted a big tent party that is broadly left-wing, then yes Communists should consider joining forces in common cause. But otherwise, we must not compromise our integral principles.
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Soviet cogitations: 589
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Dec 2013, 14:24
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Unperson
Post 14 May 2014, 10:37
Step 1 Vote Labour
Step 2 ????
Step 3 Communism

So what is step 2?
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Soviet cogitations: 3799
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 12 Jun 2006, 02:14
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Politburo
Post 14 May 2014, 13:42
Step 2 Remove thatcherists


"Where Argentina goes, Latin America will go".
Leonid Brezhnev

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Soviet cogitations: 589
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Dec 2013, 14:24
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Unperson
Post 14 May 2014, 13:47
Che Burashka wrote:
Step 2 Remove thatcherists


Are you serious or are you trying to make me laugh?
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Soviet cogitations: 3799
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 12 Jun 2006, 02:14
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Politburo
Post 14 May 2014, 14:04
Both.
But don't be scared, it won't happen anytime soon.


"Where Argentina goes, Latin America will go".
Leonid Brezhnev

Forum Rules
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Soviet cogitations: 589
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Dec 2013, 14:24
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Unperson
Post 14 May 2014, 14:16
Che Burashka wrote:
Both.
But don't be scared, it won't happen anytime soon.


I’ll try not be, it has never happened yet and won’t until the majority both understand it and want it. I just am at a loss to understand how voting labour fits in with that.
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