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Communist Party Of Great Britain(Marxist-Leninist)

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Soviet cogitations: 112
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 28 Apr 2013, 20:13
Pioneer
Post 10 Dec 2013, 20:45
Yami wrote:
Stalin was an evil man who murdered millions of workers in the USSR. What good did he ever do? His crimes are legion, crimes against the working classes and humanity.


Industrializing the Soviet Union, almost singlehandedly, and converting a backwards, agrarian country of peasants into an industrial world superpower possessing nuclear weapons in a period of about thirty years. Decisively leading the USSR to victory against the fascist Nazi aggressors in the Great Patriotic War (the USSR contributed more than any other country to the fall of the Third Reich), and saving tens of millions of lives in the process. Stalin also drastically improved the Soviet economy by initiating a series of Five-Year Plans which led to a centralized command economy, rapidly becoming one of the fastest growing economies in the world, while the rest of the world is suffering from worldwide economic depression. The Stalin administration made significant advancements in public life as well, greatly improving education (Russia was previously a mostly illiterate country), health care, science, the arts, and making Russia a better place to live.
I also disagree with your notion of Stalin killing "millions of people". If you study the official Soviet statistics, you'll find that the actual number of deaths Stalin is responsible for is much, much less (the actual number is less than a million).
Now, I don't wanna seem like some fetishistic Stalin apologist; Stalin did make a number of mistakes and I won't hesitate to criticize him for them. Nevertheless, however, the number of achievements of Stalin's Soviet Union vastly outweigh the mistakes. Yami, I think you should try to give up your rabid anti-Stalinism and praise Stalin for his contributions to the development of socialism in Russia.
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 14444
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Sep 2006, 22:05
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 10 Dec 2013, 22:09
^ that.

Loz wrote:
Stalin was worse than Hitler IMO. Hitler was a servant of capital and never denied that. He was quite open about what Nazism would bring.

The shit happened to you bro? Worse than fuсking Adolf "Holocaust" Hitler?

Also worst bucher of communists ever? You'd have to forget Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, Kiang Kai-Shek, Suharto, Pinochet, and a dozen other tyrants before Stalin could even be on the list. Also when you live in a socialist country, and every side is communist, you're bound to end up killing a lot of communists. What you're doing is equivalent to blaming Lincoln for killing more Americans than basically anyone.
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Soviet cogitations: 1128
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Aug 2008, 18:12
Party Member
Post 10 Dec 2013, 22:37
I think the main crimes of Stalin which affect the communist movement today is that he completely distorted what people perceive Marxian socialism (and even communism) to be in practice. When you talk to the average person on the street about communism they immediately think of Stalinism with its dictatorial state, its cult of personality, its secret police, its brutality, the show trials, etc. None of this was socialism. Socialism is the rule of the working class, not the rule of one autocrat with unlimited power telling people how to live their lives. This is the problem with idealist Marxism that so few people recognise in the movement today. Stalin was an idealist - hence he forced his ideals on the Soviet people.
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Soviet cogitations: 14444
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Sep 2006, 22:05
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 10 Dec 2013, 23:32
Yeah Stalin isn't responsible for the way the bourgeoisie media spun the USSR. It didn't matter who led in the chaos of the 30's-40's they would have made it out to be a hellhole regardless.

Also proof Stalin was an idealist in print please. And autocrat? Dude are you serious with that?
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Soviet cogitations: 1128
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Aug 2008, 18:12
Party Member
Post 11 Dec 2013, 01:09
Quote:
Yeah Stalin isn't responsible for the way the bourgeoisie media spun the USSR. It didn't matter who led in the chaos of the 30's-40's they would have made it out to be a hellhole regardless.


Of course the bourgeois media would have done this anyway but remember that the Soviets post-Stalin criticised him for his excesses! Can't blame the bourgeois media for that.

Quote:
Also proof Stalin was an idealist in print please.


I don't know what you mean about print but his actions show his idealism. He wanted to force people to act and behave according to the socialist ideals he had constructed in his head. Therefore people were prohibited from watching certain films, reading certain books, dressing a certain way, etc. If Stalin had been a true Marxist (and thus an empiricist and a materialist) he would have allowed the working class to actually rule themselves and their actions, tastes, behaviour and forms of expression would have manifested from this praxis. If people didn't conform to his ideals of what a socialist society should be, the state punished them.

Under capitalism, people behave in a certain way not because the government forces them to, but because the mode of production to which they are tied (and their specific social relation to the capitalist mode of production class-wise) means determines such behaviour emerges as a result. The same would be true under socialism.

Quote:
And autocrat? Dude are you serious with that?


Well the vast cult of personality would suggest so, as well as the orchestration of the execution of all the Old Bolsheviks.
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Soviet cogitations: 589
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Dec 2013, 14:24
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Unperson
Post 11 Dec 2013, 10:05
http://www.cpgb-ml.org/index.php?secNam ... afletId=99

Absolutley hilarious leaflet from the CPGB (ML), no this is not a jokes it 's genuine, though they may be trying to make us laugh.
I love step one of the fight back where we are supposed to occupy a library or a fire station, that is to be shut down and keep it open!
Erm, would you trust these people to put out a fire? As for the library they'd probably burn books deemed revisionist.
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Soviet cogitations: 589
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Dec 2013, 14:24
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Unperson
Post 11 Dec 2013, 11:31
http://www.lalkar.org/issues/contents/m ... anmen.html

Though sometimes I wonder...this can’t be serious can it?
This is from a publication called LAKLAR, one of the CPGB (ML) tomes.
Ask yourself, would you buy a used car from them?
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User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 3618
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 22 Oct 2004, 15:15
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Politburo
Post 11 Dec 2013, 13:43
gazbamber wrote:
I am a member of CPGB-ML


My condolences!

I don't want to be that "what does X actually do?" guy, but I am genuinely curious. Whenever I read the websites of the party and the Red Youth, there are always largely the same three themes:

1) Basically the same criticism of austerity policies by the government as the rest of the left.
2) Mindless, apolitical and untactful glorification of Stalin and Mao as individual great leaders, creating a stereotype of communism that has nothing to do with its reality.
3) Balls-on, counter-productive attacks on the rest of the left, with 90% of the vitriol aimed at the CPB, NCP, YCL, etc. and the mainstream international communist movement, who are all trying to make the best out of the bad situation of class consciousness in a country like the UK.

What are we to make of the fact that 2/3 of their own coverage seems to be devoted to things that are distracting or counter-productive? Is that done out of ignorance, or is distraction and destruction their goal? Inquiring minds want to know.

gRed Britain wrote:
I think the main crimes of Stalin which affect the communist movement today is that he completely distorted what people perceive Marxian socialism (and even communism) to be in practice. When you talk to the average person on the street about communism they immediately think of Stalinism with its dictatorial state, its cult of personality, its secret police, its brutality, the show trials, etc. None of this was socialism. Socialism is the rule of the working class, not the rule of one autocrat with unlimited power telling people how to live their lives. This is the problem with idealist Marxism that so few people recognise in the movement today. Stalin was an idealist - hence he forced his ideals on the Soviet people.


This, of course, is the opposite side of the coin. For people who say this, "talk[ing] to the average person on the street about communism" tends to be a strictly hypothetical concept. Experiences may differ from country to country, but this is probably truer in the former USSR countries, and it's not necessarily a bad thing there. In the west, however, whole generations have already grown up on an anti-communist propaganda that is far more devious than the simple, black-and-white, "This is the movement that brought us Stalin, Budapest 1956, and Prague 1968", which was really already on its way out around the 1970s.

I'm not sure about "talking to the average person on the street", but in the working-class movement, the mechanics of anti-communist propaganda have worked along very different lines. One comrade told in an interview about how, during the 70s, social-democratic unionists would go to villages where the communists were fighting to keep local jobs, saying: "The bosses profit from your labour, so when the communists are fighting to keep your workplace open, they are actually fighting for their profits!" In such disputes, even as early as the 1970s, dead Georgians were simply too remote to even figure into this.

Of course, in the 70s and 80s, the intervention in Afghanistan and The Gulag Archipelago provided new ammunition, as did The Black Book of Communism in the 90s, but by and large, the "crimes of communism" are simply too remote in terms of time and distance. I don't recall learning anything about "the death toll of communism" in high school, but I did learn that there is no alternative to the present system, that communism can never work because of human nature, and so forth. That is what I mean when I say that the old clichés about Stalin are only a small part of contemporary anti-communism in the west, although I would not discount it entirely.
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Soviet cogitations: 589
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Dec 2013, 14:24
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Unperson
Post 11 Dec 2013, 13:49
What is the legacy of the communist regimes that the CPGB ML endorse? Gravestones. I’d say the undertakers did a roaring trade but most of the bodies were dumped in mass graves.
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Soviet cogitations: 3799
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 12 Jun 2006, 02:14
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Politburo
Post 11 Dec 2013, 13:50
Yami wrote:
20 million perished under Stalin, one way or another, at the hands of the NKVD, famine, deportations, executions and the gulag..

8 million people actually dissapeared from the USA's Census during the 30's. Does that make FDR join the top ten of mass murderers?


"Where Argentina goes, Latin America will go".
Leonid Brezhnev

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Soviet cogitations: 589
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Dec 2013, 14:24
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Unperson
Post 11 Dec 2013, 13:53
If FDR ordered their executions then yes!

But seriously Harpal Brar is chair of the Stalin society, you should see their videos on youtube! You'd think they were scripted by Monty Python.
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 143
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jun 2013, 09:08
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Pioneer
Post 11 Dec 2013, 15:37
Yami wrote:
If FDR ordered their executions then yes!

But seriously Harpal Brar is chair of the Stalin society, you should see their videos on youtube! You'd think they were scripted by Monty Python.


Hilarity? Yes but you have to be in on the joke or you wont see it, Yami :

http://allafrica.com/stories/201306061294.html?page=2

Quote:
Not everyone is convinced by this new-found optimism, however. Keith Bennett, a British venture capitalist working for the Hong Kong-based Global Group, is intrigued by the growing interest in Somalia - but is not going to recommend that his firm join the race. “We’re in South Sudan already; if I go back and tell my board we should go into Somalia as well, they’ll tell me I’m trying to take on too much risk,” he says.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBdqo6G937c

Quote:
Keith Bennett
Vice Chairman
Mr. Keith Bennett studied Chinese History and Politics at London University's School of Oriental and African Studies (SOAS) and has more than 30 years experience of working in and with China and other Asian and emerging markets, giving him unique insights and access. He is a specialist in strategic economic and political trends and government and public relations. Besides advising Prime Ministers, government ministers, leading corporates and others in the UK, Europe, Asia, Africa, the Middle East and Caribbean, he has written and lectured extensively and edited weekly and daily newspapers with a focus on Asia.


http://companycheck.co.uk/director/905455348

http://www.global.cn/en/About/Management.htm
The world is riven by class — not race, gender, age or disability. There is only one human race, and any ideas that promote divisions between us do the work of capitalism.
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Soviet cogitations: 589
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Dec 2013, 14:24
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Unperson
Post 11 Dec 2013, 15:53


No wonder they are called the party of Millionaire Leninists.
Party members have to take elocution lessons to speak proper. Can’t have any sounding from the streets, eh comrades?
Loz
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User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 11879
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
Philosophized
Post 11 Dec 2013, 16:02
Quote:
8 million people actually dissapeared from the USA's Census during the 30's. Does that make FDR join the top ten of mass murderers?

Complete rubbish. I don't feel like copy-pasting but google that other forum and you'll see for yourself.

Quote:
No wonder they are called the party of Millionaire Leninists.

Well Harpral actually owns a carpet-making sweatshop in India.
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Soviet cogitations: 589
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Dec 2013, 14:24
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Unperson
Post 11 Dec 2013, 16:07
As Richard Littlejohn would say “you couldn’t make it up”
Soviet cogitations: 1128
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Aug 2008, 18:12
Party Member
Post 12 Dec 2013, 13:38
Quote:
This, of course, is the opposite side of the coin. For people who say this, "talk[ing] to the average person on the street about communism" tends to be a strictly hypothetical concept. Experiences may differ from country to country, but this is probably truer in the former USSR countries, and it's not necessarily a bad thing there. In the west, however, whole generations have already grown up on an anti-communist propaganda that is far more devious than the simple, black-and-white, "This is the movement that brought us Stalin, Budapest 1956, and Prague 1968", which was really already on its way out around the 1970s.

I'm not sure about "talking to the average person on the street", but in the working-class movement, the mechanics of anti-communist propaganda have worked along very different lines. One comrade told in an interview about how, during the 70s, social-democratic unionists would go to villages where the communists were fighting to keep local jobs, saying: "The bosses profit from your labour, so when the communists are fighting to keep your workplace open, they are actually fighting for their profits!" In such disputes, even as early as the 1970s, dead Georgians were simply too remote to even figure into this.

Of course, in the 70s and 80s, the intervention in Afghanistan and The Gulag Archipelago provided new ammunition, as did The Black Book of Communism in the 90s, but by and large, the "crimes of communism" are simply too remote in terms of time and distance. I don't recall learning anything about "the death toll of communism" in high school, but I did learn that there is no alternative to the present system, that communism can never work because of human nature, and so forth. That is what I mean when I say that the old clichés about Stalin are only a small part of contemporary anti-communism in the west, although I would not discount it entirely.


No there is not direct anti-communist propaganda in schools. I'm talking about how whenever Marx (and his theories in Kapital) is raised many bourgeois media pundits immediately equate him with Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot etc. in order to try and discredit him before any debate can get started. Here is a recent example from November:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timst ... -his-name/
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Soviet cogitations: 589
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Dec 2013, 14:24
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Unperson
Post 12 Dec 2013, 13:47
gRed don’t worry about what the teach in schools, you were able to find out the truth about Marx and so can those children. It is absolutely right that people are taught about Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot so that we can see what happens when people misunderstand his ideas. If the mistakes of the past can be avoided by future generations then great. As Marx said, capitalism creates its own gravediggers.
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User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 3618
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 22 Oct 2004, 15:15
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Politburo
Post 12 Dec 2013, 13:52
Yeah, obviously, but pundits for the Telegraph are not your "average person on the street". This guy reads like a typical zealous convert from leftism. I'm willing to bet that most people would just shrug their shoulders at this kind of stuff.
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 74
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Apr 2007, 06:49
Pioneer
Post 13 Dec 2013, 10:02
Seriously, anyone with any Marxist sense in Britain should be looking at the Communist Party http://www.communist-party.org.uk/ or if they are 12-29 then also the very cool Young Communist League http://yclbritain.wordpress.com/

Why waste your time with a wealthy degenerated Indian Maoist ex-Socialist Labour Party who makes his very comfy living in properties and very expensive Pasmina silk scarves?
Ilyich had a most profound faith in the class instinct of the proletariat, its creative forces, its historic mission. This faith was not born in a day. It became moulded in him during years when he had studied & meditated Marx's theory of class struggle.
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Soviet cogitations: 589
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Dec 2013, 14:24
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Unperson
Post 13 Dec 2013, 11:20
What, join up with the old Stalinists at the Morning Star? They are not socialists but Keynesian state capitalists. They don’t understand or even believe in Marxism. They even believe that a government can raise money simply by raising taxes! LOL, when all you do is take raise money for the government and don’t increase the actual amount of money in the economy.
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