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Should I join the PSL?

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Soviet cogitations: 3765
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Nov 2009, 07:13
Ideology: Other Leftist
Politburo
Post 26 Apr 2011, 06:11
Dagoth Ur wrote:
If you're not willing to take the heat of being a known communist you're not a revolutionary.

I guess I should rephrase. Be active, but take precautions. One of the reasons the Black Panther Party fell apart was FBI infiltration. Unionize, Protest, but putting your name in a database for every government official to see? No thank you.

If they find out what my name is, it will be after they arrest me for dissent, not before.
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Soviet cogitations: 531
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 09 Apr 2011, 08:41
Komsomol
Post 26 Apr 2011, 06:14
proletarian wrote:
I guess I should rephrase. Be active, but take precautions. One of the reasons the Black Panther Party fell apart was FBI infiltration. Unionize, Protest, but putting your name in a database for every government official to see? No thank you.

If they find out what my name is, it will be after they arrest me for dissent, not before.

well i agree with that concept of "acting rationally" but you must take somewhat of a risk for there to be a reward in today's world. If you follow the will of the government ruled by the bourgeois, it will get you no where but if you work your way around it while still being legal and rational, you can really make progress in some cases.
As a karate expert, I will not talk about anybody in this room......" - Jimmy McMillan
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Soviet cogitations: 3765
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Nov 2009, 07:13
Ideology: Other Leftist
Politburo
Post 26 Apr 2011, 06:18
Yes, and carrying a card does not necessarily= being active. But it does mean taking risks. It's better to join Unions, student organizations, protest groups, and study groups. To say that you have to be formal to be revolutionary is stupid.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Sep 2006, 22:05
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Philosophized
Post 26 Apr 2011, 06:23
proletarian wrote:
Be active, but take precautions.


Being a part of a real political party is much safer than working with random individuals.

proletarian wrote:
ne of the reasons the Black Panther Party fell apart was FBI infiltration.


Again this is much easier to prevent in a party setting, and much easier to defend against once it's actually happened.

proletarian wrote:
Unionize, Protest, but putting your name in a database for every government official to see? No thank you.


As far as I know the PSL, like most communist parties, does not give it's membership to the federal government.

proletarian wrote:
It's better to join Unions, student organizations, protest groups, and study groups.


These would as much get you put on a 'black list' much quicker than joining even the most aggressive political party.

proletarian wrote:
To say that you have to be formal to be revolutionary is stupid.


To think that a party is just about formality is stupid.
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Soviet cogitations: 3765
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Nov 2009, 07:13
Ideology: Other Leftist
Politburo
Post 26 Apr 2011, 06:32
Dagoth Ur wrote:
Being a part of a real political party is much safer than working with random individuals.

I didn't say it had to be random
Dagoth Ur wrote:
As far as I know the PSL, like most communist parties, does not give it's membership to the federal government.

The feds aren't very practiced in asking permission or being up front. Besides, you have to be registered to vote in some government office somewhere.
Quote:
These would as much get you put on a 'black list' much quicker than joining even the most aggressive political party.

Explain? Joining SNCC during the civil rights tour was much less risky than joining the Nation of Islam or the Panthers.
Quote:
To think that a party is just about formality is stupid.

To think that their is an effective vanguard party worth joining in the US right now is even dumber. Their is no firm party line in the United States, even communist parties are catch-all parties. It's hardly a unified front
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Sep 2006, 22:05
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 26 Apr 2011, 06:57
proletarian wrote:
The feds aren't very practiced in asking permission or being up front.


So it doesn't matter if your name is on a party registry. They can find your name anyways.

proletarian wrote:
Besides, you have to be registered to vote in some government office somewhere.


No you don't. You can be in a political party all your life and never register to vote even once.

proletarian wrote:
Explain?


You don't think they monitor progressive student organizations? Unionization is an even easier way to get your name on any 'troublemaker' type lists.

proletarian wrote:
Joining SNCC during the civil rights tour was much less risky than joining the Nation of Islam or the Panthers.


Difference of priorities.

proletarian wrote:
To think that their is an effective vanguard party worth joining in the US right now is even dumber.


A party can only be the vanguard if their is a mass workers movement to be the vanguard of.

proletarian wrote:
Their is no firm party line in the United States, even communist parties are catch-all parties.


Only the CPUSA and SPUSA. Most communist parties in the US are organized along vanguard lines.

proletarian wrote:
It's hardly a unified front


Still not a good argument against joining a political party.

Operating as a free agent <<<<<<<<< Operating as part of an organization. And being in any progressive organization is as troublesome for your name as being in any communist party.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Nov 2009, 07:13
Ideology: Other Leftist
Politburo
Post 26 Apr 2011, 07:05
Dagoth Ur wrote:
So it doesn't matter if your name is on a party registry. They can find your name anyways.

Yeah, but your name won't mean anything if it isn't tied to the members list of a militant vanguard party.
Dagoth Ur wrote:
You don't think they monitor progressive student organizations? Unionization is an even easier way to get your name on any 'troublemaker' type lists.

Unionization labels you as more of a risk then being a member of a communist party? aha, no.
Quote:
Difference of priorities.

I'm not sure I understand what this means either.
Dagoth Ur wrote:
A party can only be the vanguard if their is a mass workers movement with revolutionary potentialto be the vanguard of.

Fix'd
Dagoth Ur wrote:
Operating as a free agent <<<<<<<<< Operating as part of an organization. And being in any progressive organization is as troublesome for your name as being in any communist party.

People who protested at the WTO in Seattle are doing a lot better than the communists of the early 20th century ended up (HUAC).
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Sep 2006, 22:05
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 26 Apr 2011, 07:11
proletarian wrote:
Yeah, but your name won't mean anything if it isn't tied to the members list of a militant vanguard party.


Doing what a militant vanguard party does (ie aggressively unionizing) is just as bad if not worse. They're aware of armchair revolutionaries.

proletarian wrote:
Unionization labels you as more of a risk then being a member of a communist party? aha, no.


Aha yes. Unionization is a real force in the US, communism is not.

proletarian wrote:
People who protested at the WTO in Seattle are doing a lot better than the communists of the early 20th century ended up (HUAC).


Interesting you bring up HUAC since it was mostly people with vague connections to communists through unionization or student organizations who were victimized by it.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 28 Feb 2009, 03:41
Party Member
Post 26 Aug 2011, 05:56
[/quote]

If you're not willing to take the heat of being a known communist you're not a revolutionary.[/quote]
it's great to ruin own life and career for a phony revolution in a time where there is no single fragging amount of working class support. waste it for nothing! it's revolutionary!
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Aug 2006, 17:42
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
R.I.P.
Post 26 Aug 2011, 13:30
Quote:
I am not sure whether I should join them or not? What are the responsibilities of joining? Would I have to attend meetings or rallies? I hope that some users on here are current members and can tell me about PSL as it does look promising.


I've been affiliated with the PSL for about a year now.. Directly that is. The PSL has one advantage over other parties I have been affiliated with for the last 20 years or so... That is you can't just send in your dues and get a membership card. You have to get involved. You will have to pick an area you wish to contribute to the party. If you want to 'armchair pontificate' it's probably not for you. If you wish to help make a difference, it is. If you consider yourself a Marxist, or a M-L you should be fine, ideologically speaking. They are not Trots, they are not Maoists. They consider themselves in solidarity with Cuba and the Bolivarian Revolution.

Chthonic and I have been attending Functions with the PSL and with ANSWER Chicago as well.

Goto this link:

http://www2.pslweb.org/site/PageServer? ... PSLprogram

If you look to the bottom, there is a link to download Part One of the Program of the PSL. I'd advise reading it.

I must advise that if you don't join the PSL, become active with someone. The PSL is a newer party, but has grown Quite quickly over the past few years. Chthonic just recently started her affiliation with the PSL and might be better speaking of her experience as a new affiliate. She will be posting something soon on her Experiences very soon

Is it worth it? yes.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 18 Jul 2011, 09:57
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Party Member
Post 26 Aug 2011, 15:55
As Chaz mentioned I did just attend my first PSL meeting last week and while it was still fresh in my mind I guess I will share the experience with you guys who are thinking about joining.

I am from a very small town in Oregon and before moving to Illinois I had very little experience working with a communist/socialist party. I had read up on a few of them and I decided that the one that was most accurately aligned with my beliefs was the PSL. It was obviously really convenient that it is the party Chaz is most involved in currently. One thing we both decided was that being active was incredibly important to us as a couple.

My first meeting's topic was about Venezuela and the particular struggles in that area.. which is something I definitely needed more information about, and I'm speaking about the kind that you can't find online. I took part in a political upheaval in a foreign country for a few months (I will discuss this in PM's but I won't incriminate myself here) which led to me longing for the feeling of comradery again; wanting to talk to anyone who had seen the things I had, who had felt the passion of actually taking part in a fight for a cause they would either die for or support without fail. It is a very alienating feeling to have an experience such as that and then be put back in a stable life with no access to others who you either fought with, or are still fighting.

I have a strong personal interest in the Bolivarian Revolution so the fact that I got to Chicago in time for this particular meeting meant a lot to me. When I read who was going to speak it got me even more interested on how this was going to turn out. When we arrived everyone welcomed us warmly and I was introduced to all of the members that Chaz had developed friendships with. They asked for a five to ten dollar donation at the door but that seemed insignificant given the exposure each meeting offers to attendees. We moved to a separate room where they had pamphlets, books and flyers around, in addition to the decor of the room which included political-related flags and banners. There were several speakers including two members of the local party, and also Austin Thompson and Rixio Barrio.

You could feel the energy in the room slightly building after each speaker. Even though they were timed, the impact of their speeches was apparent. It is difficult to describe the intensity of being in a room of like-minded people. It sounds ridiculous but it's quite inspiring and it kind of makes you feel like maybe the movement actually has a chance. To any of you who aren't active in the real-world I would recommend more than anything that you at least attend a few meetings just so you can feel the empowerment and sense of unison that is impossible to replicate online. Even if you don't join that particular party, it's just an amazing feeling to feel like you aren't so.. alone, I guess. As I mentioned before, the alienation and lack of inspiration was consuming me.. going to that meeting reignited a little part of me, that familiar mental state that is now motivating me to become as active as possible. I met so many people in such a short time but by the time the meeting had finished, I walked out the door feeling like a comrade, no longer an outsider. They were so kind and inviting. If the people on SE would spend half as much energy on being politically active as they do on hating each other and gossiping I honestly think we could really make a difference. Maybe I strayed from the point and I know this is almost a novel but I can talk all day and still not accurately express the feeling you'll have. Just get out there, it's really something you just have to see for yourself.

tl;dr- get off your ass and go to a meeting.
I don't regret burning my bridges. I regret that some people weren't on those bridges when I burned them.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 15 Nov 2010, 16:48
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Komsomol
Post 28 Aug 2011, 03:09
would anyone know if they take minors in their party? I would definitely join and besides I heard that the branch here in Los Angeles is quite active.

Chthonic171 thanks alot for the insight, I always feared that communist parties here are mostly composed of weird people like the communist party of quebec, but seems PSL is serious as hell about their struggle
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Soviet cogitations: 14448
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Sep 2006, 22:05
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 28 Aug 2011, 20:19
GreenCommunism wrote:
it's great to ruin own life and career for a phony revolution in a time where there is no single fragging amount of working class support. waste it for nothing! it's revolutionary!

Please grow up. Anyone who came up to me right now and said they were a revolutionary would get laughed at, and pretty hard at that. I'm saying if you think you're a revolutionary but you don't have the balls to join even a marginalized (and probably tiny) communist party in the US, in what sense are you a revolutionary?
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 18 Apr 2010, 04:44
Ideology: None
Philosophized
Post 28 Aug 2011, 23:28
There are no revolutionaries in North America/Europe at present. What there is is a tiny band of people that are laying down the preparations for action in a forthcoming revolutionary situation.
Miss Strangelove: "You feed giants laxatives so goblins can mine their poop before the gnomes get to it."
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Soviet cogitations: 11879
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
Philosophized
Post 28 Aug 2011, 23:37
Quote:
There are no revolutionaries in North America/Europe at present.

Yes,in N.America there aren't many,but Europe is somewhat different in that regard,though.
Example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Greece

Quote:
What there is is a tiny band of people that are laying down the preparations for action in a forthcoming revolutionary situation.

I don't really understand.
If that's the case,then Lenin wasn't a real "revolutionary" in 1895,right?
Assuming,of course,that he was at that time "laying down the preparations for action in a forthcoming revolutionary situation"...
Meh,sorry,disregard that.It's just semantics anyway and i think i got your point.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 18 Jul 2011, 09:57
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Party Member
Post 29 Aug 2011, 02:01
Red Armenian wrote:
would anyone know if they take minors in their party?

I am unsure about that but it probably holds no bearing on if you can attend meetings or not. Just say you aren't ready to officially join yet. I don't see why age would be an issue as long as you handle yourself well.

Quote:
Chthonic171 thanks alot for the insight


Quote:
I always feared that communist parties here are mostly composed of weird people like the communist party of quebec, but seems PSL is serious as hell about their struggle


I can't speak for LA but Chicago seems pretty free of weird people so far. Hopefully it stays that way :/

Are you under 18 or were you asking on the behalf of someone else?

Order227 wrote:
What there is is a tiny band of people that are laying down the preparations for action in a forthcoming revolutionary situation.


Unfortunately for this country, you're quite right. But someone has to pave the path for future (potential) revolutions. I probably won't die with a gun in my hand, dramatically fighting for my cause but I'd like to think that someday someone else might get the chance because of the work we have done today.

Or maybe I'm just young, dumb and idealistic
I don't regret burning my bridges. I regret that some people weren't on those bridges when I burned them.
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Soviet cogitations: 381
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 15 Nov 2010, 16:48
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Komsomol
Post 29 Aug 2011, 03:40
Quote:
Are you under 18 or were you asking on the behalf of someone else?

No, I'm actually 16, and i truly feel alone as a communist, especially that my AP US teacher is a former pastor and right winger

Quote:
Unfortunately for this country, you're quite right. But someone has to pave the path for future (potential) revolutions. I probably won't die with a gun in my hand, dramatically fighting for my cause but I'd like to think that someday someone else might get the chance because of the work we have done today.

Or maybe I'm just young, dumb and idealistic


Idealistic maybe but definitely not dumb, I mean let's face it, some time soon, hopefully sooner than I think, the US empire is going down and at that point PSL and the other "actually parties" will be in shape to take control during the power vaccum. I'd like to think it will look like the fall of Saddam, militia, territories and all that, if we today stay active the point will come when we'll be forced to form militias and defend our supporters and our "banlieux rouges"
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 18 Jul 2011, 09:57
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Party Member
Post 29 Aug 2011, 04:32
Quote:
No, I'm actually 16, and i truly feel alone as a communist

Aw
well, all I can really say is to tough it out and stay informed. Shit I'm 21 and am just now living in a city where I'm not the only commie. It can be disheartening but I was as young as you when I started going to protests and getting serious about politics. Have you considered joining the youth division of the CPUSA? I think its 13-18 and if you live near LA I'm sure there must be some kind of chapter nearby.
I don't regret burning my bridges. I regret that some people weren't on those bridges when I burned them.
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Soviet cogitations: 10461
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Aug 2006, 17:42
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
R.I.P.
Post 29 Aug 2011, 10:38
@ RA:

Los Angeles branch
137 N. Virgil Ave., #201, Los Angeles, CA 90004 (1 blk. S. of Beverly Blvd.)
la@pslweb.org
323-810-3380

I'd call them or contact ANSWER LA:

137 N. Virgil Ave., #201, Los Angeles, CA 90004 (1 blk. S. of Beverly Blvd.)
(213) 251-1025 · answerla@answerla.org · http://www.answerla.org

Here in Chicago, ANSWER's offices are in the same place as the PSL. (just like by you) It's not a bad thing to be involved with.

The YCL can be contacted here:

http://www.yclusa.org/contact

Personally, I don't think the PSL has an age limitation for attending meetings. I'd show up. Speak if you know, Ask if you don't. Get involved.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Dec 2004, 23:53
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 29 Aug 2011, 18:52
Red Armenian wrote:
would anyone know if they take minors in their party? I would definitely join and besides I heard that the branch here in Los Angeles is quite active.


There is no age requirements to join the PSL. One of my good comrades joined when he was 15 (possibly 16). The PSL has one of our strongest branches out in LA. They usually have an event a week. More info on upcoming events here.
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