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For a Communist party of Yorkshire!

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Soviet cogitations: 209
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Dec 2010, 00:06
Ideology: Juche
Pioneer
Post 26 Dec 2010, 18:45
This is really for comrades who live in that special place in the North of England. I want to make it clear im not a sepratist im a centralist but I believe our county is entiteld to a certain amount of autonomy like Wales and Scotland say. Im for a British Soviet Federal Republic where big enough counties would have federal autonomy within that Republic. Im willing to work with Trots and Stalinists in this endevaur. Anyone interested? I want to build a Communist Party in our country and maybe further but I want to discuss a possible CPY for now. Please lets discuss!
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Thier is such a party!"
"Есть такая партия!"
Lenin,Ленин
Soviet cogitations: 1128
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Aug 2008, 18:12
Party Member
Post 26 Dec 2010, 19:48
Quote:
I believe our county is entiteld to a certain amount of autonomy like Wales and Scotland say.


Why? Surely this argument can be made for any county? I would say you are better off joining a national party than some regional outfit.
Loz
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Soviet cogitations: 11879
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
Philosophized
Post 26 Dec 2010, 23:24
Yorkshire,you're 30 years behind the Balkans!

I mean,what's the point of your idea? If you already have a previously formed and "consolidated" entity(the United Kingdom) in which the Party can operate why would you limit yourself with ideas such as "communism for Yorkshire"?
Parties have to operate in the frame of their whole respective nation.A Party cannot allow itself to plunge into regionalism.
Soviet cogitations: 495
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 03 Mar 2008, 02:36
Komsomol
Post 26 Dec 2010, 23:41
You could always join the Yorkshire Branch of the Communist Party of Britain.
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 209
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Dec 2010, 00:06
Ideology: Juche
Pioneer
Post 27 Dec 2010, 10:58
What I want is a Yorkshire regional assembly like the ones they have in Scotland in Wales. That way the cuts could be blocked. In Scotland and Wales the successfully blocked the passing of the bill to raise tuition fees. In England we didn’t. Maybe all counties should try this. I would certainly support people from Lancashire if they wanted to do this and so on. It’s not to break of or away from GB. That’s not my idea. I want a united Communist Britain. But I think one way of doing that is by destabilizing the British bourgeoisie.
In Yorkshire we heavily rely on the state benefits and were going to be worst hit by the cuts. If we could form some sort of regional government we could vote for our own budgets and so on. If we are part of the centrally bourgeois controlled downing street set up then we will always fall under that jack boot. Our MPs are as useless as any one else’s and they will always vote for the cuts for anti people policies. We’ve got no chance if we remain part of the bourgeois British set up. When the whole of Britain goes communist, then there will be new union treaties to be signed but I think the best bet for socialism in Britain is through these regional assembles. I might be wrong but it’s worth a try eh! If I cant generate any interest then im not going to bang on a well beaten drum. Ill change tack. But I want to see what comrades here think of it.
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Thier is such a party!"
"Есть такая партия!"
Lenin,Ленин
Soviet cogitations: 495
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 03 Mar 2008, 02:36
Komsomol
Post 27 Dec 2010, 13:02
Quote:
n Scotland and Wales the successfully blocked the passing of the bill to raise tuition fees.


Scotland has a changed version, still lots of cuts, its by no means a victory.

Quote:
In Yorkshire we heavily rely on the state benefits and were going to be worst hit by the cuts. If we could form some sort of regional government we could vote for our own budgets and so on.


Wait, you rely heavily on benefits and thus you want to sever ties with the central government? If what you say is true, you would be cutting off the hand that feeds you. Also, what is to stop Yorkshire representatives passing cuts programmes? If they get a regional assembly they will get a tiny budget, and there will just be different people doing the cutting. Furthermore, there is no national identity in Yorkshire, unlike Scotland and Wales.

To put it in perspective, a few years ago in the North East of England we had a referendum on whether we wanted a regional assembly. Now, the North East probably has one of the strongest regional identities in the country but the proposal was soundly defeated. People just didn't want another layer of bureaucracy. I'm all for more power to local councils, and, if Scots and Welshmen want it, I'd argue they should be independent as they are nations, but the regions? I don't think any sort of seperatism is particularly productive. Best to get involved with a local anti-cuts alliance and spend your energy there rather than agitating for some little utopia in Yorkshire.
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Soviet cogitations: 209
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Dec 2010, 00:06
Ideology: Juche
Pioneer
Post 27 Dec 2010, 17:34
Good points Comrade I will try and answer them.
Firstly I want a Communist Yorkshire. Funding for benefits and so on could be found. I want at first a representative regional assembly for Yorkshire and would encourage other counties to do the same. The aim of such an assembly in my point a view is to destabilize British capitalism and capitalists. Once Yorkshire has been recognized as semi autonomous other counties would follow suite (I hope) and then maybe Communist elements in these assemblies could make a bid for a British Soviet Federative Republic.
But at the moment my aims are quite simple, for a wide alliance of organizations wanting a Yorkshire Regional Assembly so we can choose to do what we like with our finances. It’s this very start as I see it. It’s a means to an ends. At first it would not be communist it would be a sort of peoples democracy like The Viet Mihn proposed straight after the August seizure of power in 1947. Gradually communists would gather there forces (I hope) and would enact some radical reforms. Its all about gathering momentum in the beginning. I wouldn’t just say “For a People Republic of Yorkshire!” Id start of with bourgeois demands then move forward slowly.
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Thier is such a party!"
"Есть такая партия!"
Lenin,Ленин
[+-]
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Soviet cogitations: 3618
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 22 Oct 2004, 15:15
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Politburo
Post 27 Dec 2010, 20:42
Communist organisation in Yorkshire? Here you go: http://www.ycl.org.uk/index.php?option= ... &Itemid=67

Provincial independent movements are a bit silly though. I mean, I can imagine it for Scotland and Wales, even for Cornwall, but why for an area that is so clearly English in every possible way?
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Soviet cogitations: 209
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Dec 2010, 00:06
Ideology: Juche
Pioneer
Post 28 Dec 2010, 12:31
Thats a bit racist
We Yorkshire folk have a very strong identity. As strong as those in cornwall.
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Thier is such a party!"
"Есть такая партия!"
Lenin,Ленин
[+-]
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 3618
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 22 Oct 2004, 15:15
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Politburo
Post 28 Dec 2010, 12:55
Absolutely true, but I'd say most provinces of most nations have some unique cultural properties like customs, dialects, etc. It'd be a bit much if all of them were to have the same status, because if you're consistent, you should support it for all of them too.

I'd say that by and large, Europe is moving towards the opposite, namely more integration even on an international level. I also think communism would accelerate this and make it work out in a fairer way than the capitalist EU. At the moment, the main independence movements are based on completely different things, such as:

  • Very pronounced ethnic and cultural differences, combined with some degree of (historical) oppression and/or exploitation from the "centre". Think of Scotland and Wales. While this is more understandable, I also have big doubts about Scottish or Welsh independence. I'm just saying their nationalisms are a bit more grounded in reality.
  • Complete linguistic differences as well as economic and political ones, combined with thinly-veiled bigotry against other outsiders as well. Think Flemish nationalism, which is quite reactionary and mostly attacks "socialist freeloaders who want us to speak French and let in all the immigrants". Northern Italian nationalism counts as well, but with language being less of an issue.
  • Regional economic grievances. For instance, there are people who want to make the northern Netherlands independent because the central government is enriching itself off our gas. I also think the gas profits should be divided in a fairer way, but it's hardly a reason to be independent... This is also similar to the Scottish grievances over North Sea oil.

I fully support the unique identity of regions like Yorkshire, and I think the utmost should be done to preserve and promote it. But I don't see how any of them are special enough to be independent, unless we're moving towards a Europe full of small provincial states which I don't see happening any time soon.

From the perspective of a socialist world, obviously self-determination should be the ruling principle. If some place wants more autonomy, as you say in the OP, that would be great. But I don't see why there should be a Communist Party founded just on that rather specific matter of regional policy. If I were England, the most urgent matter to me would be to rebuild the tattered communist movement nationwide and bring socialism back on the agenda, rather than spending all my energy on struggling for autonomy for my little piece of England in the long-term future.

I hope that explains it a bit better. My last post was typed up a bit quickly and without any subtlety, and I meant no offence by it.
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Soviet cogitations: 209
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Dec 2010, 00:06
Ideology: Juche
Pioneer
Post 28 Dec 2010, 13:28
Non taken comrade. Its just I am very frustrated with the communist movement in my country. Ive been a member of alot of parties Trots and Stalinist and they are all the same. Sell our papers they say. Ok you sell some papers and then what? They say lets do a petition about somthing. We do a petition got lots of signitures but we never did anything with these stupid petitions. The amount of money these parties waste on papers which nobody reads.
Im helping out with my anti cuts group in Leeds but its mostly Trot proaganda. RESISTANCE they cry when 6 people turn up to a meeting about the womans liberation movement and Marxism and end up hopelessly arguing about somthing stupid. We occupied a lecture theatre in our Uni. For one day it was big news but no others students cared. about 20 people stayed in there. It was two weeks befor the end of term so the Uni didnt care either. Great Trot planning as usual.
I give the Trots this though, at least they come out of there shells even if they do just annoy everone. Stalinists dont do anything they just send you there papers in the post and have about one meeting every 10 years in London and thats it. They think, well nobody here really likes Stalin and im not goining to go much out of my way to explain why he did some of the things he did. The main thing is I like him. The worst thing is though some Stalinists dont say yeh he was a great man but there were mistakes. Oh no, they even say that Lysenkoism cr*p was genius. And all the partys have had the same leaders for about a trillion years.
So you see Comrade from holland im stuk between a rock and a hard place. Youll find many decent english comrades here on SE who cant find a decent party. So im trying to make causes up that decent communists can support.
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Thier is such a party!"
"Есть такая партия!"
Lenin,Ленин
Soviet cogitations: 495
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 03 Mar 2008, 02:36
Komsomol
Post 29 Dec 2010, 00:17
Quote:
Non taken comrade. Its just I am very frustrated with the communist movement in my country. Ive been a member of alot of parties Trots and Stalinist and they are all the same. Sell our papers they say. Ok you sell some papers and then what? They say lets do a petition about somthing. We do a petition got lots of signitures but we never did anything with these stupid petitions. The amount of money these parties waste on papers which nobody reads.
Im helping out with my anti cuts group in Leeds but its mostly Trot proaganda. RESISTANCE they cry when 6 people turn up to a meeting about the womans liberation movement and Marxism and end up hopelessly arguing about somthing stupid. We occupied a lecture theatre in our Uni. For one day it was big news but no others students cared. about 20 people stayed in there. It was two weeks befor the end of term so the Uni didnt care either. Great Trot planning as usual.
I give the Trots this though, at least they come out of there shells even if they do just annoy everone. Stalinists dont do anything they just send you there papers in the post and have about one meeting every 10 years in London and thats it. They think, well nobody here really likes Stalin and im not goining to go much out of my way to explain why he did some of the things he did. The main thing is I like him. The worst thing is though some Stalinists dont say yeh he was a great man but there were mistakes. Oh no, they even say that Lysenkoism cr*p was genius. And all the partys have had the same leaders for about a trillion years.
So you see Comrade from holland im stuk between a rock and a hard place. Youll find many decent english comrades here on SE who cant find a decent party. So im trying to make causes up that decent communists can support.


Hi, I don't have time to respond in detail just now, but I highly recommend you check out the Alliance for Workers Liberty.

They are Trots, as, I suppose, am I, but we are very active in our communities and the student movement. I'm not saying go join them straight away, as we clearly have some serious differences of opinion, but if you are looking to get involved, PM me. They are good, sincere and hard working comrades.

http://www.workersliberty.org/
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Soviet cogitations: 9398
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Mar 2005, 20:08
Embalmed
Post 29 Dec 2010, 18:41
cut the crap-171
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"Bleh, i don't even know what i'm arguing for. What a stupid rant. Disregard what i wrote." - Loz
"Every time is gyros time" - Stalinista
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Soviet cogitations: 209
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Dec 2010, 00:06
Ideology: Juche
Pioneer
Post 30 Dec 2010, 13:12
I worked for 2 years as the financial officer for the Socielist Party in my town. I was being "groomed" to become a regional orginasier. But I just cant agree with Trotskys interpritation of events.
I know workers liberty and revolution and all the other small Trotskyist orginasations. Im flatterd by your invite but I dont think ill take the offer up.But thanks anyway. The SWP and Socialist Party are very "active" active doing what im not sure. Selling papers and doing petitions I suppose. Theres a maddening array of Communist and Socialist Partys in the UK. Its time the arguemnts of the 60s and 70s which made them all split were put to one side. They were pointless splits and arguments which did not help anyone least of all the British working man. Its all about the egos of old men and women now theyve got used to being big fishes in small ponds. The Britsih movement needs a strong man who can unite all the small fractious child like partys and cast the chatterers aside. In the UK we havent even got a Der Links type of orginazation. There are alot of Socialist Alliences and anti-this or that movements but they are all joke umbrella orginazation usually dominated by the SWP which doesnt do anything but screem "resistance".
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Thier is such a party!"
"Есть такая партия!"
Lenin,Ленин
Soviet cogitations: 3448
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 26 Jun 2006, 15:59
Ideology: Other Leftist
Party Bureaucrat
Post 31 Dec 2010, 02:04
Quote:
Theres a maddening array of Communist and Socialist Partys in the UK. Its time the arguemnts of the 60s and 70s which made them all split were put to one side. They were pointless splits and arguments which did not help anyone least of all the British working man. Its all about the egos of old men and women now theyve got used to being big fishes in small ponds.


And one more tiny sect isn't going to help matters and the British left certainly wont be united by a tiny regionalist outfit.
The moment one accepts the notion of 'totalitarianism', one is firmly locked within the liberal-democratic horizon. - Slavoj Žižek
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Soviet cogitations: 209
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Dec 2010, 00:06
Ideology: Juche
Pioneer
Post 31 Dec 2010, 13:57
One of the cardinal rules of war is dont spread your forces to thin. The British movement with its fractious minority partys has been doing just that for ages. Lets try and concentrate our forces in one place. Anyway these southern centric leftist groups dont have much influences on us northeners.
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Thier is such a party!"
"Есть такая партия!"
Lenin,Ленин
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 90
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Sep 2010, 22:24
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Pioneer
Post 08 Jan 2011, 23:07
I am a member of the South Yorkshire branch of the Communist Party of Britain comrade. You are more than welcome to come along to our gatherings in Sheffield and share your view points. I too get a bit annoyed at the futility of the movement in the UK. It is very paper based as it were. Although, I do not know what else I expect...
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Soviet cogitations: 209
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Dec 2010, 00:06
Ideology: Juche
Pioneer
Post 13 Jan 2011, 01:24
I think I will come along. You know its difficult how to move us forward. terrorism is not the way as we well know but I think that Communists here should be more active and not just at paper sales. You understand I think Comrade.
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Thier is such a party!"
"Есть такая партия!"
Lenin,Ленин
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 90
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Sep 2010, 22:24
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Pioneer
Post 13 Jan 2011, 21:05
Iron Felix wrote:
I think I will come along. You know its difficult how to move us forward. terrorism is not the way as we well know but I think that Communists here should be more active and not just at paper sales. You understand I think Comrade.


Very true. I do get annoyed at just "paper sales" as you said. The issue with the British Communist movement is that it's never really took a strong hold (whether this be because of the electoral system, or just the "unrevolutionary nature of the Brits"). You get some groups who are a bit more militant, (think SWP and their angry attitudes), and then some others who are simply trying to appeal to the masses, whether this be via "paper sales" or whatever.

I do think that whilst the Communist movement doesn't need "terrorism" or violence as such, it does need to be more prominent within society. We need to be at every issue, every protest, and in every town centre. We also need more funding I reckon...that's the thing with say the BNP, whilst their politics are terrible, they do have (or did, as they are in a bit of a troubled state right now) a lot of funding, and Far right Unity...
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Soviet cogitations: 11
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 17 Jan 2011, 20:37
New Comrade (Say hi & be nice to me!)
Post 17 Jan 2011, 21:27
Firstly, wasn't the 'People's Republic of Yorkshire' an old Sister's of Mercy T-shirt slogan?

Why not try and organise some cultural and political events focusing on the specific issues in your area as well as working in your party? What I have in mind is sort of like an extension of the anti-cuts campaigns, a broad left alliance (try and make sure there are enough non-partisan trade union members organising with you) who publish reports of what they do for individual parties to read. That way you can build local unity on a left wing basis without worrrying about isolating Comrades from the wider struggle
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