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Fifth International

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Soviet cogitations: 14448
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Sep 2006, 22:05
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 22 Mar 2010, 22:39
Oh surely. I saw it back when it was new on tv. Great documentary. But I didn't really see any of his supporters displaying a Marxist or even socalist political education. Not that I wasn't pleased to see genuine working class support even if they don't really know why they're there.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Dec 2004, 23:53
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 05 Apr 2010, 09:52
Dagoth Ur wrote:
Chavez's isn't even Marxist in name


The wokers internationale is to bring workers together internationally to fight against capitalism on a global scale. Chavez doesn't need to be a Marxist. Also the 5th international (trots) does seem to be supportive of Chavez's initiative.

Indigo wrote:
He's a populist more or less.


Disputable. Tradtionally populism has allied with existing institutions to promote the state and the peoples alliance with it. Chavez has not smashed the existing state but has come into a lot of conflict with existing institutions suchs as the old state, unions, and old political parties. The PSUV is trying to create a new state without smashing the old one, with the results of this yet to be determined. Chavez has allied with the oppressed that aren't represented by elements of the old state i.e. homeless, non wage slaves (people who the unions couldn't organize), and the poor in general. He isn't appealing to the population as a whole but brings class politics into politics which isn't populist.
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"By what standard of morality can the violence used by a slave to break his chains be considered the same as the violence of a slave master?" - Walter Rodney
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Soviet cogitations: 1201
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 09 May 2008, 14:59
Ideology: Other Leftist
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Post 05 Apr 2010, 11:27
Interesting. I suppose my definition of populist is a bit different given the history of my nation. Historically, class politics has been a part of populism (The Populist Party, the People's Party, The Silverbugs, etc.). Chavez's socialism reminds me of these parties, while being farther to the left of course, so I tend to call him a populist. You are right though. Those parties did try to change existing institutions, without doing away with them. There is a line that can be drawn between them and Chavez.

Digressing a little, what do you think of the Movement for a fifth international, Red Rebel? Do you agree with Dagoth that they are all just revisionists?
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Soviet cogitations: 10797
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Dec 2004, 23:53
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 05 Apr 2010, 11:41
The Bolivarian Revolution is in a limbo state where is has to chose whether it wants to continue the Revolution or chose to work within the restrictions of the bourgeois state. But if they chose not to advance the Revolution there exist a real possibility of a reactionary backlash.

Haven't had much contact with them, just saw their group at an anti-war rally. They aren't necessarily all Marxists but the idea of reforming an international workers organization has a lot of potential. Wouldn't call them all revisionists but they'll probably be some in there.
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"By what standard of morality can the violence used by a slave to break his chains be considered the same as the violence of a slave master?" - Walter Rodney
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