Soviet-Empire.com U.S.S.R. and communism historical discussion.
[ Active ]
[ Login ]
Log-in to remove these advertisements.

Trotskyist Tankies?

POST REPLY
Soviet cogitations: 3448
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 26 Jun 2006, 15:59
Ideology: Other Leftist
Party Bureaucrat
Post 10 Aug 2009, 00:51
Slightly random question maybe, but does anyone know of any Parties in the Trotskyist tradition which supported the Soviet/Warsaw Pact intervention in Hungary and Czeckoslovakia?

Nothing in such a position seems inherently anti-Trotskyist, any ideas?
The moment one accepts the notion of 'totalitarianism', one is firmly locked within the liberal-democratic horizon. - Slavoj Žižek
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 92
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 03 Jun 2009, 04:00
Pioneer
Post 10 Aug 2009, 07:13
The Marcyites in the U.S. split with the Socialist Workers Party over that exact question. They still seem to uphold Trotsky's views on Permanent Revolution and Degenerated/Deformed Workers States, but also tend to have good anti-imperialist positions on many questions. They seem to be pro-Trotsky but anti-Trotskyism if that makes any sense at all.

There are two Marcyite groups in the United States: Workers World Party and the Party for Socialism and Liberation.

None of this is really very clearly spelled out by the Marcyites, as far as I know, and I'm neither a Marcyite or a Trotskyite, so maybe somebody who holds these views can say more.
Study Marxism through the concrete analysis of past and contemporary national liberation struggles and class struggles: http://marxistleninist.wordpress.com/
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 14448
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Sep 2006, 22:05
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 10 Aug 2009, 10:24
The Hungarian revolt/revolution was a strange beast. On the one hand you have legitimate marxist worker councils but on the other you have a mob of near-fascists (marxists being in the majority). And there were varied reasons for this revolt, the marxists we're revolting on the basis of anti-stalinism (although not implicitly trotskyism) while the near-fascists were opportunistically seizing on the inherent chaos. And to be honest I'm pretty torn on the issue. I support the worker's councils but at the same time I don't agree with breaking off from the USSR. Down that path could only lay ruin for the worker's of Hungary as they'd be fighting off western and soviet forces/influence. Also had Hungary broken off I think it could have seriously destabilized the Soviet Union or at the very least led to Eastern Bloc nationalists trying to replicate Hungary's revolt... but then so could their proletarians so I'm still caught.

Overall I think their revolution should have been political, however without force Hungary could have done nothing to stop Khrushchev and his continuance of Stalinist-style rule. I guess I'm really up a pole here. I hate the Trots who refuse to accept that there were negative elements to the Hungarian revolution but at the same time I hate Stalinists who support Khrushchev's brutal attack on Hungarian workers, genuinely marxist workers. I guess I oppose the revolt but then I oppose Khrushchev more.

Oh and frag Sam Marcy btw. He was a petty opportunist (he supported Jesse Jackson in '88 for frag's sake) and this has been shown in the WWP. They've attached themselves to racial identity politics and third-world nationalism. They're like the MTWists of Trotskyism.
Image
Alternative Display:
Mobile view
More Forums: The History Forum. The UK Politics Forum.
© 2000- Soviet-Empire.com. Privacy.