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US communists say their time has come

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Soviet cogitations: 2377
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 02 Apr 2009, 23:59
Ideology: Other Leftist
Party Bureaucrat
Post 28 Sep 2009, 02:43
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The right-wingers aren't the enemy, the bourgeoisie is.

And yet all the parties who have tried to go it alone against the entire bourgeoisie have failed miserably. You lack concrete strategy.

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The democrats are a capitalist party run by millionaires, just like the republicans.

Compare Carter to Reagan.

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Also preaching for revolution isn't 'old dogma', it isn't the communists' job to make the process of exploitation as smooth as possible. We want to abolish it entirely!

No communist who knows what they are doing wants to do anything that winds up hurting the working class. There is more than one path to a better life, and this whole single-party dogmatism just doesn't cut it in the modern first world.

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Sam Webb is not in touch with reality.

He and the National Board have a well-detailed plan of how to build the Party and, more importantly, the movement as a whole. Have you read our Program?
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Soviet cogitations: 5167
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 08 Nov 2007, 06:31
Embalmed
Post 28 Sep 2009, 05:10
Quote:
And yet all the parties who have tried to go it alone against the entire bourgeoisie have failed miserably. You lack concrete strategy.


Imperialism, the cold war, and the endless splits and internal conflicts have sugar-coated the reality of capitalism, indoctrinated the workers, and split and confused our base of support. But with the development of the internet, and the subsequent destruction of a complete bourgeois monopoly on information and media has made it easier and more convenient for us to educate and agitate.

In addition, imperialism is causing people to tire of war and bloodshed, even if it is against the most perceived evil force, anti-american islamic terrorists, people want an end to it. But there simply can not be, unless capitalists suddenly do not care about profits, or unless there is a socialist revolution.

With the economic crisis, people are starting to understand the nature of the system they live in. The government took their tax dollars to save the people who caused the crisis themselves, the same people who then turned around and laid off many workers and foreclosed many families' homes.

For many minorities, racism is an intolerable issue. It plagues their lives everyday, and even negatively affects whites. Racism fuels crime and the growth of gangs by producing an oppressive environment for minorities.

Socialists are at the forefront of movements and taking to the streets trying to rid society of these problems. The PSL is attracting the support of many mistreated workers, minority persons, and people sick of war. Unlike many other previous parties, they are incredibly active and hard-working. The people who run the party are very dedicated and smart, I would not be surprised if the PSL would be at the front of a movement to abolish capitalism in short-term future.

The problems I mentioned, with the possible exception of the present economic crisis, are growing, not shrinking. Ultimately, it is capitalism itself and its inherent contradictions that will create the opportunity for us to rally workers behind socialism. No grand strategy will forward the communist movement if capitalism is creating prosperity.

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Compare Carter to Reagan.


As far as I'm concerned, they are faceless representatives of the bourgeoisie. Reagan came around when a massive rise in anti-imperialism threatened world capitalism. Carter came around after the massive social upheaval that resulted from the vietnam war and the worst economic problem since the great depression. It seems a bit more then convenient that there's a soft face and a mean face to take the presidency when there needs to be.

Which I do not think the CPUSA realizes this, and therefore buys into the fraudulent 'democratic' system.

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No communist who knows what they are doing wants to do anything that winds up hurting the working class. There is more than one path to a better life, and this whole single-party dogmatism just doesn't cut it in the modern first world.


No, they do not. But it should not be our goal to disillusion workers from the reality of capitalism and try to convince them it can be reformed. This is not dogma. This is being rational.

Communists realize capitalism is a system of exploitation, and we act on that, and teach this to workers. What you want communists to do would turn them into opportunist populists, not marxists.

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He and the National Board have a well-detailed plan of how to build the Party and, more importantly, the movement as a whole. Have you read our Program?


No I haven't, tell me about it. Although it doesn't seem to be working very well.

Now, what we really need to do in america is end the splits and unite all the parties so we can pool our resources, a first step towards building a movement and ending the embarrassment of constant infighting and bickering. Then, we can focus on education, protests, and gaining the trust of the proletariat.

And we don't do this by piggybacking the capitalist parties!
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Dec 2004, 23:53
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 28 Sep 2009, 05:18
Red_Son wrote:
Yes and other Parties tactics have worked out so well.


Compared to the CPUSA, yes. I've been actively politically for a almost three years. Gaza solidarity rallies, anti-war demos, supporting public libraries, the G-20, International Women's Day, May Day, ect. I only saw three people from the CPUSA at the annual anti-war demo in DC. Any radical party I can think of had a larger (many times more than three people) presence than the CPUSA.

We will win reform for the betterment of the working class not by allying with progressive sectors of the ruling class; but, we will win the Employee Free Choice Act, healthcare reform, immigration reform, higher wages, ect. by forcing the ruling class to make concessions. That isn't done by top level union bureaucrats lobbying the Democratic party, the CPUSA allying with the bourgeois against reactionary sectors of the ruling class or whatever type of revisionism. It will be done by grassroots organizing, mass demonstrations and working class militancy.
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"By what standard of morality can the violence used by a slave to break his chains be considered the same as the violence of a slave master?" - Walter Rodney
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Soviet cogitations: 2377
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 02 Apr 2009, 23:59
Ideology: Other Leftist
Party Bureaucrat
Post 28 Sep 2009, 20:49
The CPUSA's support for tactical voting is short-term, as the enormous resources needed to fund a campaign are simply not available at the moment. But I submit that these other parties would not have lasted a year under what the CPUSA has endured. They have done what is necessary to keep American communism alive, and the mere fact that the party still exists is a testament to our merit.

We have never piggy-backed anybody. Our articles have provided sharp criticism of certain policies of President Obama (torture photos, structure and size of the stimulus package, and his handling of the healthcare debate). We simply feel that, while putting together a strong movement in the long term, short term gains must be won to the movement's credit to build confidence and victories before going after the bigger goal.

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The PSL is attracting the support of many mistreated workers, minority persons, and people sick of war. Unlike many other previous parties, they are incredibly active and hard-working. The people who run the party are very dedicated and smart, I would not be surprised if the PSL would be at the front of a movement to abolish capitalism in short-term future.

And if they do not wish to be elected, what is their aim? To take up arms and begin an insurgency?

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Ultimately, it is capitalism itself and its inherent contradictions that will create the opportunity for us to rally workers behind socialism. No grand strategy will forward the communist movement if capitalism is creating prosperity.

So what you are saying is that in order for us to help the working class, we must first harm it. I must disagree with this.

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What you want communists to do would turn them into opportunist populists, not marxists.

Politics is opportunism to some degree or other.

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No I haven't [read the party program].

If you seek to provide accurate criticism of our party, you should at least read our official line.

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Now, what we really need to do in America is end the splits and unite all the parties so we can pool our resources, a first step towards building a movement and ending the embarrassment of constant infighting and bickering. Then, we can focus on education, protests, and gaining the trust of the proletariat.

And what is the PSL's plan for this?

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Compared to the CPUSA, yes. I've been actively politically for a almost three years. Gaza solidarity rallies, anti-war demos, supporting public libraries, the G-20, International Women's Day, May Day, ect. I only saw three people from the CPUSA at the annual anti-war demo in DC. Any radical party I can think of had a larger (many times more than three people) presence than the CPUSA.

Our parties previous ties to the CPSU still haunt us, and our level of cooperation with them was excessive. This lead to us being targeted far more than any other left-wing party, and the wounds are still healing. But these wounds also seem to be healing rather quickly, and I have no doubt that the Party will return to prominence among the American socialist/communist movement.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 08 Nov 2007, 06:31
Embalmed
Post 28 Sep 2009, 21:23
Quote:
The CPUSA's support for tactical voting is short-term, as the enormous resources needed to fund a campaign are simply not available at the moment. But I submit that these other parties would not have lasted a year under what the CPUSA has endured. They have done what is necessary to keep American communism alive, and the mere fact that the party still exists is a testament to our merit.

We have never piggy-backed anybody. Our articles have provided sharp criticism of certain policies of President Obama (torture photos, structure and size of the stimulus package, and his handling of the healthcare debate). We simply feel that, while putting together a strong movement in the long term, short term gains must be won to the movement's credit to build confidence and victories before going after the bigger goal.


How, exactly, is fighting a likely unwinnable battle against the right wing going to build the movement?

And, in all honesty, the party is still alive because it dropped radical politics and being a revolutionary workers' party. Some merit.

Th resources aren't available, and they probably won't be until CPUSA drops its armchair 'tactical' politics line. I could really care less as to what they've been through, because now it's just becoming an excuse.

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And if they do not wish to be elected, what is their aim? To take up arms and begin an insurgency?


I really hope the CPUSA doesn't think it will achieve communism by voting and reform


The PSL is focused on building a base of support. They are doing this by constantly staging protests and organizing conferences, supporting workers when workers need help, and getting in debates with political opposition.

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So what you are saying is that in order for us to help the working class, we must first harm it. I must disagree with this.


How the hell did you get that from what I said? Capitalism will destroy itself, and that is what will give way to socialist revolution, not some grand strategy.

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Politics is opportunism to some degree or other.


You're dodging the point. Communists want to abolish capitalism and put workers in power, but they aren't populists in the sense that they do whatever they can to better the condition of the working class in capitalism. That is unfeasible and irrational.

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If you seek to provide accurate criticism of our party, you should at least read our official line.


I have better things to do then read the 'grand strategy' of some revisionists who have spent too much time sitting in their offices on the sidelines of politics as an unsupported outlier.

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And what is the PSL's plan for this?


That was my opinion. But the PSL is open and willing to merge with other parties, but they see too many differences between them and the revisionist CPUSA, and the trotskyist ISO. I still think that those differences can be reconciled on the basis that we all want capitalism abolished.

I've already mentioned the PSL's activities. I don't think I have to again.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 02 Apr 2009, 23:59
Ideology: Other Leftist
Party Bureaucrat
Post 29 Sep 2009, 00:44
Quote:
How, exactly, is fighting a likely unwinnable battle against the right wing going to build the movement?

We seek the broadest possible unity against the most dangerous tendencies of the bourgeoisie, which are encompassed in the ultra-right. Socialist measures will be much more easy to push and pass in a social-democracy than in a neoliberal state. If, in this way, we can simultaneously avoid bloodshed and make progress, so be it.

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The resources aren't available, and they probably won't be until CPUSA drops its armchair 'tactical' politics line.

Or a bunch of overzealous protesters decide they want to play soldier and wind up triggering an unwinnable war which will set the movement further back than Gorbachev's assumption of power. Tell me, what is the difference between your party and RevCom?

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How the hell did you get that from what I said?

Your strategy would wind up with the bourgeoisie uniting under the right-wing(as well as with reactionary workers) and devastating the lives of hundreds of millions of working people in the ensuing struggle.

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Communists want to abolish capitalism and put workers in power, but they aren't populists in the sense that they do whatever they can to better the condition of the working class in capitalism. That is unfeasible and irrational.

It doesn't work the same way in the first world as it did with the third. Many gains have been won in the US without having to start insurgencies. Non-violence is not an entirely bad idea, though I wouldn't say it's always a good tactic.

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I have better things to do then read the 'grand strategy' of some revisionists who have spent too much time sitting in their offices on the sidelines of politics as an unsupported outlier.

Like bitching about said strategy?

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I still think that those differences can be reconciled on the basis that we all want capitalism abolished.

I'm interested to build a bridge here, Conscript. What's your idea of how a merger between our two parties would work?
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Sep 2006, 22:05
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 29 Sep 2009, 00:58
Quote:
Your strategy would wind up with the bourgeoisie uniting under the right-wing(as well as with reactionary workers) and devastating the lives of hundreds of millions of working people in the ensuing struggle.


Any serious revolutionary movement will cause this. The second american revolution is going to be a civil war just like the first. Us and progressive workers on one side, reactionary tools and bourgeoisie dogs on the other.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 02 Apr 2009, 23:59
Ideology: Other Leftist
Party Bureaucrat
Post 29 Sep 2009, 01:03
I will say this much, if that were how things turned out, I would put aside my hopes for a less violent path and join the left. The tide carries us, not the other way around, and I have no intention to resist the movement.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Sep 2006, 22:05
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 29 Sep 2009, 01:23
That's the political nature of the United States. Its kinda like the cossacks in russia. There is the same ingrained reactionary character in some groups that no amount of progress (short of revolution) can dislodge. Our hillbillies and fundamentalists are not just going to wither away in the face of our movement. If anything they'll become emboldened to take more drastic action than they do now.
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Soviet cogitations: 2377
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 02 Apr 2009, 23:59
Ideology: Other Leftist
Party Bureaucrat
Post 29 Sep 2009, 01:46
Don't you mean "kulaks"? Anyways, I can agree that some force will be necessary, but it's my hope that a more peaceful route than others proposed above is possible and that the threat of war will be all that is necessary to forward the working class as a whole.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Sep 2006, 22:05
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 29 Sep 2009, 02:13
No I mean cossacks. Kulaks are easy to kill, cossacks aren't.
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