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Afghanistan

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Soviet cogitations: 272
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 22 Feb 2010, 13:54
Komsomol
Post 16 May 2010, 21:50
Does anyone know anything about Afghanistan and socialism ? all i really know is it was agaisnt Islam, they voted in a socialist president which asked for soviet military aid :/ o and the socialist president wanted to increase women rights.
Soviet cogitations: 1533
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Oct 2007, 15:55
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Party Member
Post 16 May 2010, 23:29
Socialism was widely unpopular in Afghanistan because it conflicted with the traditions of the Afghan people. Things such as forced marriages and wearing burquas were prohibited. Other things such as the redistribution of land and allowing women to learn to read and write were highly unpopular. The reason why Afghanistan had asked for Soviets for help so it could fend off the anti-government mujahideen rebels. This of course led to a 10 year struggle between Soviet forces and the mujahideen rebels. Eventually the Soviets withdrew and Afghanistan had to fend for itself. The socialist government was overthrown in 1992.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic ... fghanistan
We have beaten you to the moon, but you have beaten us in sausage making.- Nikita Khrushchev
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Soviet cogitations: 3711
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Jul 2006, 04:49
Ideology: Juche
Old Bolshevik
Post 17 May 2010, 08:28
Quote:
all i really know is it was agaisnt Islam, they voted in a socialist president which asked for soviet military aid :/


Wasn't President Najibullah a Muslim?
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Soviet cogitations: 489
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 22 Feb 2010, 15:15
Komsomol
Post 17 May 2010, 23:01
I don't know if he was a muslim, but their policies were too progressive for such an underdeveloped country. Also, he was just the last president, and the previous presidents were more militant in the de-islamization. Their laicism was way too much for the tribal religious leaders, therefore their lack of support by the masses and, thus, the fail of the attempt to bring socialism to Afghanistan.
"You're a pretty cool guy" - Mabool
"the social democrats don't give a frag about changing this capitalist system [...] so they can lick my greasy peanut buttered balls like the dog they are." - Greenanarchism
Soviet cogitations: 2408
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 01 Nov 2003, 13:17
Ideology: Other
Forum Commissar
Post 23 May 2010, 18:03
They had nutters like Hafizullah Amin in the government. Even a Marxist atheist would find such a character unpallatable.
Soviet cogitations: 272
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 22 Feb 2010, 13:54
Komsomol
Post 23 May 2010, 19:19
if he was unpopular how did he get voted in ? I am guessing he was popular then people disagreed with his policies.
Soviet cogitations: 2408
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 01 Nov 2003, 13:17
Ideology: Other
Forum Commissar
Post 23 May 2010, 20:13
Quote:
if he was unpopular how did he get voted in ? I am guessing he was popular then people disagreed with his policies.


I do not recall he was voted in, rather he lead a coup and had his predecessor murdered.
Soviet cogitations: 272
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 22 Feb 2010, 13:54
Komsomol
Post 23 May 2010, 20:39
sounds like the normal communist way to get to power :/ Political Interest
Soviet cogitations: 2408
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 01 Nov 2003, 13:17
Ideology: Other
Forum Commissar
Post 23 May 2010, 21:12
Even still, that is no way to take power. How can you murder someone you go to work with over politics? Someone you sat in the cabinet room with, the next month you have him killed?
Soviet cogitations: 272
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 22 Feb 2010, 13:54
Komsomol
Post 23 May 2010, 22:49
i did not justify the act. i just said communists tend to do this. Karl called for revolutions and all that instead of democratic ways of gaining power.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 22 Feb 2010, 15:15
Komsomol
Post 23 May 2010, 22:52
Actually no, Karl did say that it was possible to implement socialism via democratic elections if the conditions for that were to exist at some point, because they didn't back then.
"You're a pretty cool guy" - Mabool
"the social democrats don't give a frag about changing this capitalist system [...] so they can lick my greasy peanut buttered balls like the dog they are." - Greenanarchism
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Soviet cogitations: 4779
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 12 May 2010, 07:43
Ideology: Other Leftist
Politburo
Post 23 May 2010, 23:03
Commie77 wrote:
i did not justify the act. i just said communists tend to do this. Karl called for revolutions and all that instead of democratic ways of gaining power.


When he wrote "The Communist Manifesto," his views seem to suggest this. However, as circumstances changed, his views changed as well, so that while socialism and communism were still the goals, he saw more than simply revolution as the means to attain those ends:

Valex wrote:
Actually no, Karl did say that it was possible to implement socialism via democratic elections if the conditions for that were to exist at some point, because they didn't back then.
“Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals” - Mark Twain
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Soviet cogitations: 4501
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Oct 2004, 22:04
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Resident Soviet
Post 23 May 2010, 23:20
Commie77 wrote:
it was agaisnt Islam


The DRA regime was not against Islam, but rather against feudalism. In the 1980s the government spent monies to build and restore mosques, and sent thousands of Afghanis to the Haj pilgrimage in Saudi Arabia. At the same time, the National Fatherland Front -a movement of hundreds of thousands of non-communist supporters of the regime, included many Afghan Muslim groups and leaders. The radical period of semi-associating Islam with Afghan backwardness and otherwise insulting it ended in 1979 when Babrak Karmal came to power and began persuing more rational, careful and progressive policies. Among the first symbolic steps he took when he came into office was to revert the flag to one including the colours associated with Islam.

Commie77 wrote:
sounds like the normal communist way to get to power


The problem is that his predecessor was a communist too.


Political Interest wrote:
They had nutters like Hafizullah Amin in the government. Even a Marxist atheist would find such a character unpallatable.


And Marxist atheists did. After all, who do you think comprised the Soviet Politburo? I've read recently that Brezhnev took the murder of Taraki very seriously, almost as an insult to him personally.
"The thing about capitalism is that it sounds awful on paper and is horrendous in practice. Communism sounds wonderful on paper and when it was put into practice it was done pretty well for what they had to work with." -MiG
Soviet cogitations: 272
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 22 Feb 2010, 13:54
Komsomol
Post 23 May 2010, 23:29
So aghanistans backwardness was kind of similar to Russia's ?
The Afghanistan proved to us that communists would kill communists for communism :P
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Soviet cogitations: 3765
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Nov 2009, 07:13
Ideology: Other Leftist
Politburo
Post 23 May 2010, 23:35
Commie77 wrote:
sounds like the normal communist way to get to power :/ Political Interest

communists don't stage coups, they stage popular revolutions
Commie77 wrote:
So aghanistans backwardness was kind of similar to Russia's ?

No, Afghanistan was theocratic tribal feudalism. Russia was an empire who happened to have a serf-like population
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Soviet cogitations: 14448
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Sep 2006, 22:05
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 24 May 2010, 02:09
Misuzu wrote:
Wasn't President Najibullah a Muslim?


Yes he was. One of the main points of western and islamist propaganda has been that there is a disconnect between the two. That is that to be a communist is to not be a muslim and vise versa.

Commie77 wrote:
sounds like the normal communist way to get to power :/


No it isn't. Show me one country where socialism was achieve by means of coup. Top down revolutions don't work bro.

Commie77 wrote:
i did not justify the act. i just said communists tend to do this. Karl called for revolutions and all that instead of democratic ways of gaining power.


Which is false on both counts. Explain how you democratically dispossess the class that controls the economy, military, and media.

Valex wrote:
Actually no, Karl did say that it was possible to implement socialism via democratic elections if the conditions for that were to exist at some point, because they didn't back then.


As though such conditions exist today.

soviet78 wrote:
The DRA regime was not against Islam, but rather against feudalism. In the 1980s the government spent monies to build and restore mosques, and sent thousands of Afghanis to the Haj pilgrimage in Saudi Arabia. At the same time, the National Fatherland Front -a movement of hundreds of thousands of non-communist supporters of the regime, included many Afghan Muslim groups and leaders. The radical period of semi-associating Islam with Afghan backwardness and otherwise insulting it ended in 1979 when Babrak Karmal came to power and began persuing more rational, careful and progressive policies. Among the first symbolic steps he took when he came into office was to revert the flag to one including the colours associated with Islam.


This.

proletarian wrote:
No, Afghanistan was theocratic tribal feudalism. Russia was an empire who happened to have a serf-like population


What? Russia was feudalist too.
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Loz
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Soviet cogitations: 11879
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
Philosophized
Post 24 May 2010, 02:25
Quote:
What? Russia was feudalist too.


It was capitalist with peculiar "leftovers" of feudalism on the village(despite the 1867 cancellation of serfdom)
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Soviet cogitations: 14448
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Sep 2006, 22:05
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 24 May 2010, 02:35
Bullshit. Just because there were capitalists in a sea of feudalism doesn't make it capitalist.
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Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
Philosophized
Post 24 May 2010, 02:44
Wait until tomorrow when i'll get you Lenin's description of Pre-revolutionary Russian economy.
Soviet cogitations: 272
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 22 Feb 2010, 13:54
Komsomol
Post 24 May 2010, 12:55
[Dagoth Ur wrote]No it isn't. Show me one country where socialism was achieve by means of coup. Top down revolutions don't work bro.
[/quote]

If you mean revolutions/wars/coups in general there is Russia, Cuba, Vietnam, China... But if you mean unpopular revolutions or something then there is Grenada um and i have to search for others
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