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Ex-Yugoslav Nationalism

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Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
Philosophized
Post 13 Jan 2010, 22:05
Quote:
so it would be better to pretend like holocaust never happened because it was committed by nazis? the way you make it sound is like it was done by 5 people.


Mabool didn't say that.He just said that it is wrong to equalize Germans with nazis,and blaming Germany for the sins of the 3.reich and using this demagogy for extorting money by raping their own victim's memory,like here:http://www.jewishjournal.com/israel/article/israel_to_ask_germany_for_14_billion_for_wwii_forced_labor_20091221/.They'll probably use it to buy more arms and blast some more Palestinians.

Quote:
so we should just pat victims of jasenovac on the back and send them back? people in jasenovac were killed en masse and deserve some kind of compensation at least. so far they did not. and even when croatia started moving towards socialism, the government sanctioned "clearing" several slovene villages at the border.


This i really don't understand.Where could we send them "back".It was a conc. camp and most of it's inmates were killed.They do deserve the compensation,but from whom? Why would i pay from my pocket to Serbia(to the children of the people killed there),on the grounds that i'm to be blamed for Pavelić's crimes? Who will pay for Vukovar,or Srebrenica?
Last edited by Loz on 13 Jan 2010, 22:07, edited 1 time in total.
Soviet cogitations: 10005
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
Ideology: Trotskyism
Philosophized
Post 13 Jan 2010, 22:07
Quote:
so it would be better to pretend like holocaust never happened because it was committed by nazis? the way you make it sound is like it was done by 5 people.


Of course not. But we should face the facts. The Holocaust was perpetrated by the German government and the SS, with friendly cooperation of the Wehrmacht and foreign forces. So, the ones that should be blamed for the Holocaust are the German government, the SS, the Wehrmacht and those foreign forces that aided the Nazis, NOT the German nation as a whole. Hell, even most party members didn't know about the holocaust until the end of the war. My grandmother has told me how she kept trying to find out what happened to her Jewish friends who had disappeared when she was a young woman, but nobody could tell her anything. My grandfather found out about the Holocaust only because he was conscripted into the Wehrmacht and, later, had to guard one of the camps. When he found out what happened in the camps, he deserted, walked home and told everybody he knew about the Holocaust. The message was utterly shocking to everybody. Seriously, hardly anyone knew what was going on. So how can you blame the German nation for the Holocaust? There are lots of things it can be blamed for. Supporting Hitler in the beginning. Believing his lies. But the Holocaust? No.
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 17 Jul 2006, 00:10
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Post 13 Jan 2010, 22:28
Quote:
Mabool didn't say that.He just said that it is wrong to equalize Germans with nazis,and blaming Germany for the sins of the 3.reich and using this demagogy for extorting money by raping their own victim's memory,like here:http://www.jewishjournal.com/israel/article/israel_to_ask_germany_for_14_billion_for_wwii_forced_labor_20091221/.They'll probably use it to buy more arms and blast some more Palestinians.


most of holocaust survivors went there because they had no where else to go. non-jewish victims returned back to their homeland. some of the money also went to yugoslavia and russia, no?

Quote:
This i really don't understand.Where could we send them "back".It was a conc. camp and most of it's inmates were killed.They do deserve the compensation,but from whom? Why would i pay from my pocket to Serbia(to the children of the people killed there),on the grounds that i'm to be blamed for Pavelić's crimes? Who will pay for Vukovar,or Srebrenica?


well, you and mesić did state that some elements of NDH army were legitimate fighters for an independent croatia. is NDH legitimate state now or not? i dont recall serbs committing war crimes during ww2 or setting up concentration camps for croatians. and what about slovene villages massacred after world war by croatian government? štrigova is an example here. where is compensation for those victims?

Quote:
Of course not. But we should face the facts. The Holocaust was perpetrated by the German government and the SS, with friendly cooperation of the Wehrmacht and foreign forces. So, the ones that should be blamed for the Holocaust are the German government, the SS, the Wehrmacht and those foreign forces that aided the Nazis, NOT the German nation as a whole. Hell, even most party members didn't know about the holocaust until the end of the war. My grandmother has told me how she kept trying to find out what happened to her Jewish friends who had disappeared when she was a young woman, but nobody could tell her anything. My grandfather found out about the Holocaust only because he was conscripted into the Wehrmacht and, later, had to guard one of the camps. When he found out what happened in the camps, he deserted, walked home and told everybody he knew about the Holocaust. The message was utterly shocking to everybody. Seriously, hardly anyone knew what was going on. So how can you blame the German nation for the Holocaust? There are lots of things it can be blamed for. Supporting Hitler in the beginning. Believing his lies. But the Holocaust? No.


i did not say that german nation is entirely to be blamed for holocaust, but german nation did apologise to the victims and is still paying repatriations. i dont understand why paying compensation to another country or group of people would now mean that everyone are as bad as hitler. lets hypothetically say that USA becomes communist overnight and pulls out from iraq. should they just let entire country razed as it is or pay repatriations? i'm sure superpower could afford it and it would be the only moral thing to do. if we just play that nothing happened it will be the same like in italy where crypto-fascism is not only rising but practically in power.
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Jugoslavija je bleda slika
premrzlega partizana
zato je njeno ljudstvo navajeno trpeti
zato je njeno ljudstvo pripravljeno umreti.

-Via Ofenziva

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Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
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Post 16 Jan 2010, 15:43
Quote:
well, you and mesić did state that some elements of NDH army were legitimate fighters for an independent croatia. is NDH legitimate state now or not? i dont recall serbs committing war crimes during ww2 or setting up concentration camps for croatians. and what about slovene villages massacred after world war by croatian government? štrigova is an example here. where is compensation for those victims?


Yes,this is stated by many historians.Some(uneducated mostly) people thought that Pavelić's regime would at some point be overthrown and HSS would assume power,and turn against nazis in a fight for an independent Croatia.
Actually,there was an attempt of a coup against Pavelić(Lorković-Vokić coup in 1944) that unfortunately failed.
http://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urota_Lork ... Voki%C4%87
We can also say that some elements of Wehrmach fought for a free Germany(offices that participated in a coup against Hitler)

Quote:
I did not say that german nation is entirely to be blamed for holocaust, but german nation did apologise to the victims and is still paying repatriations. i dont understand why paying compensation to another country or group of people would now mean that everyone are as bad as hitler


I believe that german nation doesn't have to apologise anymore and submissively pay reparations.Those who were to blame got theirs,Germany paid reparations to Israel.Young Germans or Croats or everyone else(Serbs,Slovenians:actually a thousand more Jews were killed in Serbia than in Croatia") don't have to bear the guilt for anything their fathers did.Like Mabool said,it's wrong to blaim a "nation" for something.Just like i can't blaim serbian nation for 1991-'95 invasion on my country
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Post 16 Jan 2010, 17:27
Quote:
Yes,this is stated by many historians.Some(uneducated mostly) people thought that Pavelić's regime would at some point be overthrown and HSS would assume power,and turn against nazis in a fight for an independent Croatia.
Actually,there was an attempt of a coup against Pavelić(Lorković-Vokić coup in 1944) that unfortunately failed.
http://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urota_Lork ... Voki%C4%87
We can also say that some elements of Wehrmach fought for a free Germany(offices that participated in a coup against Hitler)


that's all fine and well, all glory to the heroes, but this hardly changes anything. the coup failed and genocide still occurred.

Quote:
I believe that german nation doesn't have to apologise anymore and submissively pay reparations.Those who were to blame got theirs,Germany paid reparations to Israel.Young Germans or Croats or everyone else don't have to bear the guilt for anything their fathers did.


it is only fair that the nation condemns those who participated in aiding hitler and his genocidal plans and that the state apologises for the actions of people who were in power that time. or should we pretend like nothing happened and sweep it under the rug like italy did? also, i wasnt talking only about ustaša crimes before.

Quote:
(Serbs,Slovenians:actually a thousand more Jews were killed in Serbia than in Croatia")


ustaša wanted to create catholic aryan super race. jews were not necessary the enemies of the state. in serbia holocaust was supervised by gestapo.

Quote:
Just like i can't blaim serbian nation for 1991-'95 invasion on my country


serbs believe they were protecting their minority in krajna, not invading croatia. here we can go into an entirely different debate.
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Jugoslavija je bleda slika
premrzlega partizana
zato je njeno ljudstvo navajeno trpeti
zato je njeno ljudstvo pripravljeno umreti.

-Via Ofenziva

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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 24 Jan 2006, 20:36
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Post 25 Jan 2010, 14:44
I am sorry, but Serbs only believed to be rescuing their "slaughtered people" in Croatia because Milošević and official propaganda was saying so. Same moment as they came in Croatia they found destruction of everything on their way to the intended Virovitica-Karlobag border of the "Greater Serbia", no matter if it was historic monument, church or just civil dwellings. Montenegrians went hand-in-hand with serbian "federal" army and joined forces in drunken plundering of Dubrovnik hinterland and bombarded the city intensively. Don't tell me that bombing of the Unesco protected world heritage has something to do with "endangered serbian minority". It has to do with drunken, propaganda brainwashed officers and poor kids wich could not understand what are they up to. Many of them found death in their planes, tanks and trenches hundreds or even thousands kilometers away from their homes, in a foreign country, only to fulfill strange ambitions of their political and army ("JNA") leadership - which understood that the biggest losers in Yugoslavia falling apart is their, until then, privileged caste.

Political leadership wanted to make pure "territory gain" on behalf of the fact that - wow! - Serbs are living in other states beside Serbia, and that they should join in one greater state. That will guarantee the gain of the regions which were very prosperous in the Yugoslavia - seaside (tourism), Slavonia (food and grain industry,oil and gas). So, the background, ladies and gentleman was - MONEY!!

Army leadership, consisted 80% of Serbs, was realizing that with disintegration of Yugoslavia they are loosing something really precious, their way-of-life. JNA, Yugoslav Federal Army, was matter of fact "state-in-a-state", they lived their own life on very high standards, and after Tito's death their only purpose so many times declared was: Preservation of Yugoslavia, from external and internal enemy, what after all meant preservation of their luxurious and important lives. That was funded by common budget, what is translated - MONEY mostly from the most developed regions - Croatia and Slovenia. That was worth fighting and dying for, they preached for so many years.
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Post 25 Jan 2010, 15:07
Quote:
I am sorry, but Serbs only believed to be rescuing their "slaughtered people" in Croatia because Milošević and official propaganda was saying so. Same moment as they came in Croatia they found destruction of everything on their way to the intended Virovitica-Karlobag border of the "Greater Serbia", no matter if it was historic monument, church or just civil dwellings.


croatia also attempted to annex parts of bosnia, slovenia and montenegro for their greater croatia scheme and still does.

Quote:
Montenegrians went hand-in-hand with serbian "federal" army and joined forces in drunken plundering of Dubrovnik hinterland and bombarded the city intensively.


i heard similar stories about your army in knin and vukovar and other places.

Quote:
Don't tell me that bombing of the Unesco protected world heritage has something to do with "endangered serbian minority". It has to do with drunken, propaganda brainwashed officers and poor kids wich could not understand what are they up to.


who blow up that bridge in mostar which was also UNSECO heritage out of sheer boredom?

Quote:
That will guarantee the gain of the regions which were very prosperous in the Yugoslavia - seaside (tourism), Slavonia (food and grain industry,oil and gas).


i dont remember srpska krajina bordering on sea or even larger parts of slavonia, where did you pick that up?

Quote:
Army leadership, consisted 80% of Serbs, was realizing that with disintegration of Yugoslavia they are loosing something really precious, their way-of-life. JNA, Yugoslav Federal Army, was matter of fact "state-in-a-state", they lived their own life on very high standards, and after Tito's death their only purpose so many times declared was: Preservation of Yugoslavia, from external and internal enemy, what after all meant preservation of their luxurious and important lives.


that is completely true, for a change. the problem is that these officers were also slovenes, croats, etc.

Quote:
That was funded by common budget, what is translated - MONEY mostly from the most developed regions - Croatia and Slovenia. That was worth fighting and dying for, they preached for so many years.


JLA didnt care about slovenia or our money. in fact croatia was hoping that JLA will be bled dry if they forget about slo-cro agreement about unified front and allow JLA tanks to cross our border unopposed and unmolested, as opposed to agreement we had. luckily, JLA didnt care nor wanted anything with slovenia.
Image


Jugoslavija je bleda slika
premrzlega partizana
zato je njeno ljudstvo navajeno trpeti
zato je njeno ljudstvo pripravljeno umreti.

-Via Ofenziva

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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
Ideology: Trotskyism
Philosophized
Post 26 Jan 2010, 03:09
Quote:
seaside (tourism)


As long as you're blowing each others' heads off FOR NO fragging REASON AT ALL, tourism really is not an issue.

Seriously, reading this thread makes the whole of former Yugoslavia seem like a giant fragging kindergarden to me. Why can't you guys just fragging drop it and be friends? It worked for more than 40 years, dammit!
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 17 Jul 2006, 00:10
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Post 26 Jan 2010, 04:21
but we are friends. this is just a friendly brawl
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Jugoslavija je bleda slika
premrzlega partizana
zato je njeno ljudstvo navajeno trpeti
zato je njeno ljudstvo pripravljeno umreti.

-Via Ofenziva

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Soviet cogitations: 10005
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
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Philosophized
Post 26 Jan 2010, 04:24
so this...

Quote:
croatia also attempted to annex parts of bosnia, slovenia and montenegro for their greater croatia scheme and still does.


...and accusing each other of something like holocaust denial is part of a friendly brawl
?

slavs are weird people then.
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 17 Jul 2006, 00:10
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Post 26 Jan 2010, 04:27
no man, it's just that southern slavs love to talk about how we will kill each other and then go for a drink together. you know, it's part of our culture.
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Jugoslavija je bleda slika
premrzlega partizana
zato je njeno ljudstvo navajeno trpeti
zato je njeno ljudstvo pripravljeno umreti.

-Via Ofenziva

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Soviet cogitations: 10005
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
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Post 26 Jan 2010, 04:46
oh, lol. awesome.
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
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Post 26 Jan 2010, 16:12
Moris stated something which i really accept.
Besides calling Mesić a faschist,when he obviously isn't one.Abstain from puking such nonsense or intentional defamation.
Check his biography,speeches,etc.I've watched him on tv many times,unlike who with your 2 claims of "pro-faschist" speech in 1990.It was mildly deprived of anti-NDH tone,but considering the circumstances it isn't something important,especially when he proved an ardent AF in his 8 years of presidency.
And on this:
Quote:
no man, it's just that southern slavs love to talk about how we will kill each other and then go for a drink together


I don't remember seeing Croats and Serbs for example threatening each other with murder than drinking together the next day.At least not during the War(s).Also,i've never done something like that nor do i know someone who did this.
Maybe Serbs love to put it in that way to mitigate their role in YU wars as just a "friendly brawl" between crazy but benevolent southern Slavs-"Yugoslavs".The only thing was that they really went for the killing! Around 100 000+ Muslims in Bosnia and 15000 Croats to be precise.

Quote:
croatia also attempted to annex parts of bosnia, slovenia and montenegro for their greater croatia scheme and still does.


Stupidity.Never heard about Croatia tried to annex MN and SLO!Give me a source.Though both nations tried to annex parts of Croatia,that is,parts of Croatian land confirmed by the AVNOJ-ZAVNOH.(Antifaschist council for national liberation of Yugoslavia/Croatia)
Croatia wanted to protect it's people in Bosnia by creating a Croat entity(for which it had a perfect legitimation,because both the Serbs and the Muslims/Bosniaks had their armies,and Serbs even had a para-state).
Though i don't agree with Tuđman's policy toward Bosnia(the subsequent war with Bosniaks and),just like many other Croats.

Quote:
i heard similar stories about your army in knin and vukovar and other places.


hahaha.Yes,Croats destroyed Vukovar themselves just to blame the Serbs! Really,if you want to disgrace yourself even more,tell those stories.

Quote:
who blow up that bridge in mostar which was also UNSECO heritage out of sheer boredom?
profound campaign of destruction,like the ones that Serbs perpetrate(Vukovar,Osijek,Dubrovnik,Zadar,Karlovac,S.Brod etc...)

Quote:
that is completely true, for a change. the problem is that these officers were also slovenes, croats, etc.

Yes,there were especially many Croats in the "JNA" in 1991.

Quote:
JLA didnt care about slovenia or our money. in fact croatia was hoping that JLA will be bled dry if they forget about slo-cro agreement about unified front and allow JLA tanks to cross our border unopposed and unmolested, as opposed to agreement we had. luckily, JLA didnt care nor wanted anything with slovenia.


This is just funny.You contradict yourself.So JNA didn't care about SLO.And evil Croats wanted it to "bleed dry".Have you ever though about the fact that Croats let the "JNA" intervene just because we knew it will put up a show "fight" and let SLO go(as "slobo" said earlier) because their real goal was Croatia,that is,"greater Serbia"?
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 24 Jan 2006, 20:36
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Post 26 Jan 2010, 16:42
If only Serbs (JNA, paras, volunteers,etc...) stopped on the borders of the so-called "Krajina" many civil lives would be saved in 1991/1992, but cities of Vukovar, Vinkovci, Osijek, Zadar, Sibenik, Dubrovnik and many others are far from serbian majority territory and if you check some of many authentic footage from the period you'll see and hear JNA officers talking about "blitz toward Zagreb and crushing the croatian government". The capital of one internationally recognized and sovereign state, i might add. Nothing to do with area where "serbian majority is in great danger. I think you are writing too many things which are not founded in facts, but out of your subjective opinion. This brings me to conclusion that you HATE Croatia and croatian people, and that you humiliate one nation's struggle and right to fight for their freedom.
This is already enough to bring you a ban, at least on this subject.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 17 Jul 2006, 00:10
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Post 26 Jan 2010, 17:01
Quote:
Besides calling Mesić a faschist,when he obviously isn't one.Abstain from puking such nonsense or intentional defamation.
Check his biography,speeches,etc.I've watched him on tv many times,unlike who with your 2 claims of "pro-faschist" speech in 1990.It was mildly deprived of anti-NDH tone,but considering the circumstances it isn't something important,especially when he proved an ardent AF in his 8 years of presidency.


he's a chameleon, that's it. he even asked NATO to invade yugoslavia during his presidency. he's a warmonger and an irredentist, ergo =U=.

Quote:
I don't remember seeing Croats and Serbs for example threatening each other with murder than drinking together the next day.At least not during the War(s).Also,i've never done something like that nor do i know someone who did this.


that's quite strange now. i remember when we went to belgrade there were serbs and bosnians in our group and we all joked about it and then drank.

Quote:
Maybe Serbs love to put it in that way to mitigate their role in YU wars as just a "friendly brawl" between crazy but benevolent southern Slavs-"Yugoslavs".The only thing was that they really went for the killing! Around 100 000+ Muslims in Bosnia and 15000 Croats to be precise.


did i say war was a friendly brawl? i was referring to this conversation.

Quote:
Stupidity.Never heard about Croatia tried to annex MN and SLO!Give me a source.Though both nations tried to annex parts of Croatia,that is,parts of Croatian land confirmed by the AVNOJ-ZAVNOH.(Antifaschist council for national liberation of Yugoslavia/Croatia)


is said PARTS. ZAVNOH was nothing more than a semi-ustaša council which blackmailed yugoslavia and slovenia to hand over first istra, and then mirna which was never before in history part of croatia.

Quote:
Croatia wanted to protect it's people in Bosnia by creating a Croat entity(for which it had a perfect legitimation,because both the Serbs and the Muslims/Bosniaks had their armies,and Serbs even had a para-state).


i agree. but in return SAO krajina and RS should exist.

Quote:
Though i don't agree with Tuđman's policy toward Bosnia(the subsequent war with Bosniaks and),just like many other Croats.


those 'many' other croats kept electing him, havent they? nice of you to admit franjo's 'other' role in bosnia.

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hahaha.Yes,Croats destroyed Vukovar themselves just to blame the Serbs! Really,if you want to disgrace yourself even more,tell those stories.


if i remember vukovar had overall higher percentage of serbs living there than croats.

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profound campaign of destruction,like the ones that Serbs perpetrate(Vukovar,Osijek,Dubrovnik,Zadar,Karlovac,S.Brod etc...)


both of your countries were blowing places up.

Quote:
Yes,there were especially many Croats in the "JNA" in 1991.


i was refering to pre-91. and besides there was even slovene JNA general after 1991 and a half slovene leading paramilitary unit called tigers in bosnia.

Quote:
This is just funny.You contradict yourself.So JNA didn't care about SLO.And evil Croats wanted it to "bleed dry".Have you ever though about the fact that Croats let the "JNA" intervene just because we knew it will put up a show "fight" and let SLO go(as "slobo" said earlier) because their real goal was Croatia,that is,"greater Serbia"?


whether your government believed that or not matters not. what matters is that your side lied directly into our faces and allowed JNA to pass through the border. JNA's primary objective that time was preserving yugoslavia, not greater serbia. not that i find greater serbia a bad thing. i mean original ideologues of greater serbia wanted to return large chunks of our territory. croatia on the other hand wants to take whatever meagre sea we have to prevent us from drilling oil in adriatic. i even remember franjo saying croatia deserves border with austria for some reason through slovenia. i think what i prefer is obvious, despite the fact that (several) user(s) will be calling me "ethnic serb".

Quote:
This brings me to conclusion that you HATE Croatia and croatian people, and that you humiliate one nation's struggle and right to fight for their freedom.


a credible statement coming from a guy who called slovenes a mix of serbs and bosnians and denies ethnic cleansing/genocide


Quote:
This is already enough to bring you a ban, at least on this subject.


because i dont agree with you? makes sense. i cant change history, but i have right to question it.
Image


Jugoslavija je bleda slika
premrzlega partizana
zato je njeno ljudstvo navajeno trpeti
zato je njeno ljudstvo pripravljeno umreti.

-Via Ofenziva

Forum Rules
Loz
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Soviet cogitations: 11879
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
Philosophized
Post 26 Jan 2010, 18:45
Moris,this is turning into a farse.You have stated so much shit that you really deserve a golden toll medal
Starting from:

Quote:
he's a chameleon, that's it. he even asked NATO to invade yugoslavia during his presidency. he's a warmonger and an irredentist, ergo =U=.


Your idiotic statements don't have a foothold in reality.Try to prove it or at least explain if you want people to consider you serious.

Quote:
that's quite strange now. i remember when we went to belgrade there were serbs and bosnians in our group and we all joked about it and then drank.


Yeah,i don't know with whom you went.Probably degenerics or Kusturica-like types.

Quote:
is said PARTS. ZAVNOH was nothing more than a semi-ustaša council which blackmailed yugoslavia and slovenia to hand over first istra, and then mirna which was never before in history part of croatia.


This would get you in prison in YU.Semi-ustaša council? A source,explanation?

Quote:
i agree. but in return SAO krajina and RS should exist.


SAO krajina-no! And never!

Quote:
those 'many' other croats kept electing him, havent they? nice of you to admit franjo's 'other' role in bosnia.


Yeah,like Serbs "elected" slobo,or Russians "elected" Putin.Election fraud,besides the general pressure on the electorial body.

Quote:
if i remember vukovar had overall higher percentage of serbs living there than croats.


So,what does it have to do with anything.Besides,there were more Croats in the city,Serbs in the surrounding villages.
It was a Croatian city,in ZAVNOH Croatia,SR Croatia.And Serbian scum destroyed it completely.

Quote:
both of your countries were blowing places up.


Like? How many cities did Croats destroy?

Quote:
i was refering to pre-91. and besides there was even slovene JNA general after 1991 and a half slovene leading paramilitary unit called tigers in bosnia.


What was pre-'91 isn't relevant.And besides,even then there was a Serb majority.Wow,even a slovene general! Even though Slovenes composed around 10% of the whole population,

Quote:
not that i find greater serbia a bad thing


IRREDENTIST!
You're disgusting.We are here to discuss communism-related topics,where most of people condemn irredentism,nationalism and faschism!
You have now presented us with what you are,a supporter of a "greater serbia".Though "serbdom" is getting smaller every year,just like nokia phones,haha.
Soviet cogitations: 10005
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
Ideology: Trotskyism
Philosophized
Post 26 Jan 2010, 20:03
But still you're going to get drunk and have fun together. It's fascinating. Really. If Germans had this kind of debate, fists would be flying.
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
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Soviet cogitations: 3553
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 17 Jul 2006, 00:10
Ideology: Other Leftist
Forum Commissar
Post 26 Jan 2010, 20:44
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Moris,this is turning into a farse.You have stated so much shit that you really deserve a golden toll medal


really? you'll give me yours?


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Your idiotic statements don't have a foothold in reality.Try to prove it or at least explain if you want people to consider you serious.


he didnt say so? perhaps you are misinformed.

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Yeah,i don't know with whom you went.Probably degenerics or Kusturica-like types.


my schoolmates actually. what, are you surprised that slovenians are more tolerant to other people and dont put them in concentration camps?

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This would get you in prison in YU.Semi-ustaša council? A source,explanation?


thank god we're not in YU anymore then, no? why i find them fascists? because they were land grabbing murderous bastards, thats why. i even gave you an example before when i mentioned a village name, which you... did not find worthy to address.

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SAO krajina-no! And never!


then you have no right to demand herceg-bosna's existence.

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Yeah,like Serbs "elected" slobo,or Russians "elected" Putin.Election fraud,besides the general pressure on the electorial body.


come now, franjo defeated communists while they were in power, dont tell me he wasnt elected.

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So,what does it have to do with anything.Besides,there were more Croats in the city,Serbs in the surrounding villages.
It was a Croatian city,in ZAVNOH Croatia,SR Croatia.And Serbian scum destroyed it completely.


serbian scum you say? lovely.

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Like? How many cities did Croats destroy?


they did destroy ones which were populated by serbs.

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What was pre-'91 isn't relevant.And besides,even then there was a Serb majority.Wow,even a slovene general! Even though Slovenes composed around 10% of the whole population,


hey, we even used to have a prime minister during the monarchy. we're amazing arent we?

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IRREDENTIST!
You're disgusting.We are here to discuss communism-related topics,where most of people condemn irredentism,nationalism and faschism!


oh, come on, the only difference between me and you is that i admit to be a nationalist while you're in denial. i havent called anyone 'scum' so far at least.

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You have now presented us with what you are,a supporter of a "greater serbia".Though "serbdom" is getting smaller every year,just like nokia phones,haha.


now? i thought i already mentioned it earlier. strange.


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But still you're going to get drunk and have fun together. It's fascinating. Really. If Germans had this kind of debate, fists would be flying.


i think he went to drink before and forgot about me
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Jugoslavija je bleda slika
premrzlega partizana
zato je njeno ljudstvo navajeno trpeti
zato je njeno ljudstvo pripravljeno umreti.

-Via Ofenziva

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Loz
[+-]
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 11879
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
Philosophized
Post 26 Jan 2010, 21:54
Bloody hell.
To bad i'm not drunk so i could write long posts about this grotesque.

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he didnt say so? perhaps you are misinformed

What he said was his fault.So what?Some people on this forum,as they say,were "conservatives" and all.Should we blame them now and call them "backward-burgeoise"? And,you know the circumstances in which he said this.But again,i'm wasting words.You just stick to your retarded point to provoke me,never bothering to verify my evidence of his antifaschism.

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my schoolmates actually. what, are you surprised that slovenians are more tolerant to other people and dont put them in concentration camps?

Yes,Slovenians fought a long and devastating war against the Serbs,a battle of life and death.Serbs have left SLO go,because it doesn't fit in their "great serbia".A war which lasted 10 days,and took18 casualties. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten-Day_War
Haha,about Slovenian tolerance.Heard about "izbrisani",or the "deleted people"? To remind you: http://www.preventgenocide.org/europe/slovenia/
About croatian camps:these were camps under HOS paramilitary "iurisdiction",they didn't have much to do with official croatian authorities,even less public.

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thank god we're not in YU anymore then, no? why i find them fascists? because they were land grabbing murderous bastards, thats why. i even gave you an example before when i mentioned a village name, which you... did not find worthy to address.

Come on.Give me at least one source,or a website,or something.I can't accept your "Zmago-Jelinčič" style nationalist gossips.
There were some excesses,which i don't doubt,hell,maybe the village was destroyed,but by whom? By the Serbs in partisan units maybe under croatian commandant? Which unit committed those crimes? When? I can also talk to you about crimes perpetrated by slovenian "white guard" in Zagorje,but these are my granma's stories which i can't confirm,so i didn't mention them before.

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then you have no right to demand herceg-bosna's existence.

I don't demand it.

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come now, franjo defeated communists while they were in power, dont tell me he wasnt elected.

Barely defeated them.Also,it was 1990.He was yet to show himself.

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serbian scum you say? lovely.

How should i call those who razed a city and expelled all it's non-serb population? Chetnik scum,that's about it.

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they did destroy ones which were populated by serbs.

Like? Zagreb maybe,Osijek,Zadar,Šibenik.?
Even the Knin with serbian majority(after their ethnic cleansing back in '91) was captured relatively intact.

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oh, come on, the only difference between me and you is that i admit to be a nationalist while you're in denial. i havent called anyone 'scum' so far at least.

Why wouldn't i call chetniks scum?! Those who killed,and plundered,and raped and destroyed don't deserve anything else.Ustashe also.American republicans also.All the scum which prevents the world from further development.
I'll never call myself a nationalist,at least not here in ex-yu where it has even more vile connotations.
But i will defend my opinion here,and you're free to refute it....
Support "great serbia",it's your own problem.
[+-]
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 3553
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 17 Jul 2006, 00:10
Ideology: Other Leftist
Forum Commissar
Post 26 Jan 2010, 22:21
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What he said was his fault.So what?Some people on this forum,as they say,were "conservatives" and all.Should we blame them now and call them "backward-burgeoise"? And,you know the circumstances in which he said this.But again,i'm wasting words.You just stick to your retarded point to provoke me,never bothering to verify my evidence of his antifaschism.


so he was a fascist while he was member of presidium of yugoslavia but then got better? sorry, this is an extreme U turn. or should i say =U=? joke, sorry


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Yes,Slovenians fought a long and devastating war against the Serbs,a battle of life and death.Serbs have left SLO go,because it doesn't fit in their "great serbia".A war which lasted 10 days,and took18 casualties. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten-Day_War


and if it would be long and bloody? we still wouldnt get any help? your country was violating a treaty, who cares if there was a full scale war or croatian border guards shooting at hungarian civilians.

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Haha,about Slovenian tolerance.Heard about "izbrisani",or the "deleted people"? To remind you: http://www.preventgenocide.org/europe/slovenia/


they refused citizenship, what can i do about it? this is not fault of our government, it was their choice. no one sent them to concentration camps.

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About croatian camps:these were camps under HOS paramilitary "iurisdiction",they didn't have much to do with official croatian authorities,even less public.


ah good, finally we hear about paramilitary militias.

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Come on.Give me at least one source,or a website,or something.I can't accept your "Zmago-Jelinčič" style nationalist gossips.


you invited jelinčič to your national tv once. if your country takes him seriously, how can you call it gossips?
http://www.hervardi.com/meja_s_hrvasko_ ... regled.php
i hope the site is in order. read between the lines and ignore rightis nationalist rhetoric and it will be fine. they source their stuff.

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There were some excesses,which i don't doubt,hell,maybe the village was destroyed,but by whom? By the Serbs in partisan units maybe under croatian commandant? Which unit committed those crimes? When? I can also talk to you about crimes perpetrated by slovenian "white guard" in Zagorje,but these are my granma's stories which i can't confirm,so i didn't mention them before.


those were white guards and most of them got what they deserved. what we're talking about here were croatian communists and post ustaša government. if it was serb partisan under croatian commander then i suppose croatian commander should be trialed. but why would serbs do that? i mean they accepted our exiles during the war with open hands.

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I don't demand it.


then dont justify it.

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Barely defeated them.Also,it was 1990.He was yet to show himself.


he was a nationalist at that point already. people knew what they were getting into.

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How should i call those who razed a city and expelled all it's non-serb population? Chetnik scum,that's about it.


if you prefer.

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Like? Zagreb maybe,Osijek,Zadar,Šibenik.?
Even the Knin with serbian majority(after their ethnic cleansing back in '91) was captured relatively intact.


what about međak or mostar?

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Why wouldn't i call chetniks scum?! Those who killed,and plundered,and raped and destroyed don't deserve anything else.Ustashe also.American republicans also.All the scum which prevents the world from further development.


hehe, now we're getting somewhere.

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But i will defend my opinion here,and you're free to refute it....


did i say you are not entitled to your opinion? after all, that's what forums are all about.
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Jugoslavija je bleda slika
premrzlega partizana
zato je njeno ljudstvo navajeno trpeti
zato je njeno ljudstvo pripravljeno umreti.

-Via Ofenziva

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