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Bolivarian Revolution (The New Sub-Subforum of Venezuela)

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Soviet cogitations: 638
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 May 2006, 07:44
Ideology: Left Communism
Resident Soviet
Post 21 May 2006, 18:31
Just thought it warrants a thread. It's massive, it's happening, it's rolling on. It's now, and although we can't be sure of it's outcomes, there's certainly much positive in it. Last notes from a Russian free-traveller G. Koubatian (he was in Bolivia just a few days ago and going to Cuba now) tell there's so much optimism in people towards a socialist fututre there, a strong desire to build socialism and fight American imperialism...

Venezuela, Bolivia, joined with Cuba - and possible others to join this movement.

Can we perhaps document the key events in the history of the Bolivarian Revolution in this thread and keep it an ongoing "newsforge"?


Stanislav.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 16 Nov 2005, 17:55
Party Bureaucrat
Post 21 May 2006, 18:39
That might be a good idea. Throughout the current events, red square, and Cuba subfora, there are several random threads about Venezuela and Bolivia, mostly Venezuela. It would be nice to consolidate those, whoever is willing to do so.
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"History is a set of lies agreed upon."
--Napoleon Bonaparte
Soviet cogitations: 638
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 May 2006, 07:44
Ideology: Left Communism
Resident Soviet
Post 28 May 2006, 16:00
A Socialist World Map project (only works for N&S America as of now). Pretty descriptive, even if it doesn't really distinguish between socialist-proclaimed leadership and actual socialist society building measures being done in the country.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 22 Oct 2004, 15:15
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Politburo
Post 28 May 2006, 16:29
There's no way some of those countries are even close to socialism.

Guyana:

"A political deradicalization occurred as the PPP, PNC, and WPA evolved into social democratic organizations as opposed to Marxist ones. President Jagan reassured the United States with his newfound commitment to free-market economics, although the PPP remained close to the trade unions." (from Wikipedia)

Panama:

Should be orange for social-democrat.

On Bachelet in Chile:

"A moderate Socialist, she campaigned on a platform of continuing Chile's free market policies, while increasing social benefits to help reduce the country's gap between rich and poor, one of the largest in the world." (again Wikipedophilia)

Brazil:

"After winning the presidency, Lula changed many of his original ideals. His party moved progressively to a modern social democratic political position. Instead of deep social changes (as proposed in the past) his government chose a reformist line, passing new retirement, tributary, labor, and judicial laws, and discussing a university reform. Some members of the Worker's Party disagreed with these changes in focus."
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 13 Aug 2004, 00:54
Pioneer
Post 28 May 2006, 17:42
Guyana and Chile have social democratic leaders but Chile is commits itself to maintaining both neoliberalism and social democracy, i.e. they are third-wayists. Brazil is more neoliberal than social democratic as well. Venezuela and Bolivia are not socialist, i.e. the content of the political system remains the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie. The significant aspect of Venezuela is that the Bolivarian Revolution is in the process of establishing workers’ councils and setting up a system of dual power.
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Fanon - Freire - Luxemburg - Sartre
Soviet cogitations: 638
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 May 2006, 07:44
Ideology: Left Communism
Resident Soviet
Post 28 May 2006, 18:20
Quote:
Venezuela and Bolivia are not socialist, i.e. the content of the political system remains the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie.

Really? But as I understood, there's massive nationalization going on in both Venezuela and Bolivia.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 13 Aug 2004, 00:54
Pioneer
Post 28 May 2006, 18:31
Nationalization does not necessarily mean socialization of the means of production. During the 1930s, the United States government nationalized quite a bit of property but it did not mean workers’ power.
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Fanon - Freire - Luxemburg - Sartre
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 May 2006, 07:44
Ideology: Left Communism
Resident Soviet
Post 28 May 2006, 18:54
Quote:
Nationalization does not necessarily mean socialization of the means of production.

Certainly, if it simply means concentrating means of production in the hands of the bourgeoise. But from what I heard, the leadership of both countries proclaims moving to socialism.

Quote:
the United States government nationalized quite a bit of property but it did not mean workers’ power

Actually, wasn't it the time when Roosevelt was criticized for his "Soviet" policies?
Soviet cogitations: 7674
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Nov 2004, 02:08
Embalmed
Post 28 May 2006, 18:58
Canada is slowly slipping into a reactionary state as well. Mr Harper said our media is "too Liberal friendly."
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 13 Aug 2004, 00:54
Pioneer
Post 28 May 2006, 21:52
Quote:
Certainly, if it simply means concentrating means of production in the hands of the bourgeoise. But from what I heard, the leadership of both countries proclaims moving to socialism.

Word and form do not neccesitate identical content. The PRC calls itself 'socialist', workers have political power in some factories, but the PRC is not socialist.
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Fanon - Freire - Luxemburg - Sartre
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Aug 2006, 17:42
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
R.I.P.
Post 05 Sep 2006, 21:25
I decided to post here for a few reasons.

1-like S_B stated:
Quote:
Just thought it warrants a thread. It's massive, it's happening, it's rolling on. It's now, and although we can't be sure of it's outcomes, there's certainly much positive in it. Last notes from a Russian free-traveller G. Koubatian (he was in Bolivia just a few days ago and going to Cuba now) tell there's so much optimism in people towards a socialist fututre there, a strong desire to build socialism and fight American imperialism...


It is happening now. this is something that can be studied and learned from.

we can talk Venezuela's successes and faults and learn from them.

http://www.plenglish.com/article.asp?ID=%7BF11B6C35-1DE1-42C6-A20C-69DA07001F8D%7D)&language=EN

This story is addressing the up coming elections in venezuela. they are to be held on December 3. This is an important thing to the World socialist movement.


http://www.tehrantimes.com/Description.asp?Da=9/3/2006&Cat=4&Num=13

This link is about chavez voting to remove the term limitation in venezuela therefor allowing him to run indefinitely
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Jun 2006, 00:25
Pioneer
Post 08 Oct 2006, 04:21
Venezuela is on the way to Socialism, the only thing stopping it would be the bourgeoisie who still control a lot in Venezuela. The people will eventually take control, but that will take time. Bolivia is on the same process, but has just started so it'll be hard to tell what is in store for them.


The best way to see how proletariat is gaining power in Venezuela is how Chavez has built many communal councils. The people will decide how they wish to structure their communities and he will provide them the necessary cash to build what they need. Thus, the bourgeoisie will slowly lose power as the people's level of consciousness grows with each decision they make. Hopefully, Bolivia will eventually choose to continue down this path...

http://venezuelanalysis.com/articles.php?artno=1844
Last edited by Comintern-Revolution on 09 Oct 2006, 09:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Aug 2006, 17:42
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Post 08 Oct 2006, 23:35
Quote:
The best way to see how proletriat is gaining power in Venezuela is how Chaves has built many communal councils.


I think that you hit on the most important part and the most over looked part...

the most important issue is putting power into the hand of the workers. and that is the idea of the councils.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 24 Jan 2006, 03:39
Komsomol
Post 09 Oct 2006, 01:53
Quote:
Brazil: "After winning the presidency, Lula changed many of his original ideals. His party moved progressively to a modern social democratic political position. Instead of deep social changes (as proposed in the past) his government chose a reformist line, passing new retirement, tributary, labour, and judicial laws, and discussing a university reform. Some members of the Worker's Party disagreed with these changes in focus."



But it could be that Lula got a minority government..
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Aug 2006, 17:42
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Post 09 Oct 2006, 02:54
Quote:
But it could be that Lula got a minority government..


What?
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Dec 2004, 23:53
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 09 Oct 2006, 03:55
According to your unsourced quote, Lula probably became more reactionary/revisonist so he didn't piss off the conservatives.
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"By what standard of morality can the violence used by a slave to break his chains be considered the same as the violence of a slave master?" - Walter Rodney
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 24 Jan 2006, 03:39
Komsomol
Post 09 Oct 2006, 20:24
http://www.economist.com/world/displays ... id=8001234

http://www.economist.com/world/displays ... id=8001712

Quote:
Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva failed to win a majority of the votes in Brazil's presidential election, forcing a run-off on October 29th. His opponent will be Geraldo Alckmin, a former governor of São Paulo. See article


Quote:
UNTIL the final days of the campaign, Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva appeared to be heading for certain re-election as Brazil's president in the first round of voting on October 1st. Then he made Brazilians angry. Last month members of his Workers' Party (PT) were caught with 1.75m reais ($800,000) in cash—the price of a dossier supposedly implicating José Serra, candidate of the centre-left Party of Brazilian Social Democracy (PSDB) for the governorship of São Paulo, in a long-running corruption scandal. Rather than apologise or explain, Lula ducked the final televised debate with his rivals. The day before the vote, photos of the piled-up cash appeared in the media. Voters hit back. Lula's first-place finish, with 48.6% of the poll, is really a defeat. He now faces an unexpected second round against Geraldo Alckmin, a former PSDB governor of São Paulo, who came just seven points behind and way ahead in morale and momentum.



Sounds like echo of the Canadian liberal party!!
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Aug 2006, 17:42
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
R.I.P.
Post 19 Oct 2006, 23:29
it probably is very similar in ideals..
Soviet cogitations: 21
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 20 Oct 2006, 19:46
Pioneer
Post 20 Oct 2006, 20:19
Hey.

This is my first post on the Forum.

A really really great forum by the way.

My name is Felipe and Im studying History here on Santiago de Chile.

The whole thing about the new soscialism I personally think thats something very very vague... We still dont know what really wants chavez, by the way hes spending about 35.000 millions of dollars on weaponry.

We all Hope here to the Chavez issue goes on until Socialism with force and soul.

But, the Brazil affair is diferent.

Thats because USA is trying to make a counter-part to the venezuela-cuba-bolivia party... With Brazil, Peru, Argentina.

Something like.

Anyways, our case here on Chili is false...

Bachelet is no soccialism, bachelet is not even third way... Bachelet is part of "the concertation" thats a party that has been holding the power since the peacefully pass of power by Pinocher.

Bachelet would have great intentions, but please search in the news for the strikes of Health, the strikes of the Teachers, the strikes of the secondary Students for reivindication.

And the governement censures it, changes the information, lies to the leaders.

And the mass-media lies, and lies, and lies.

Its not as good the thing here... Just for the burgoise.

And thats how it goes.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 12 Jun 2006, 02:14
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Politburo
Post 21 Oct 2006, 04:24
Hi Felipe,
I'm from Argentina and I feel the same way about Bachelet. If Lula was a kind of dissapointment because he had to moderate the reforms he planned, Michele didn't even try to make them. I've been several times to Santiago de Chile, my father lives there, and after all those years the Concertacion has been in power... it's sad to see a government so clearly aligned with the grand capital and not with the workers.


By the way, Venezuela's buying weapons doesn't bother me as much as Chile's modernization of its army. Venezuela has only bought rifles and a few planes. Chile has bought ships, planes and I heard rumors about tanks. But the USA didn't even say a word....


"Where Argentina goes, Latin America will go".
Leonid Brezhnev

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