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Tell me about Yugoslavia

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Soviet cogitations: 7
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 09 May 2006, 22:11
New Comrade (Say hi & be nice to me!)
Post 09 May 2006, 22:19
I lived in X Yugo up untill the middle of the war in the 90s, and it really was a great country to live in. Tito was very smart in that, if something did not work he would change it, one of the changes was, when one year farmers did not grow or produce enogh food, the first year that he saw that this wasnt working he changed it. He changed it in a way where he would Privatise it in a way, where the farmer could get benefits from his hard work, but these benefits were not enough for him to be rich.

I think russians (correct me if im wront) but they did everything by the book, and theory is different to practice.

There is a great speech by this italian profesor, where he speaks about americans and their war on "terror" but he also talks about x yugoslavia, and what he said is that, it was one country where the system was built around the people, not around the big bussinesses. Fantastic .

anyway, if there are any X Communist yugos out there please drop me a line at jake_cvje@yahoo.com. id love to hear from you (we are a rare breed)

cheers
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Soviet cogitations: 4500
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Oct 2004, 22:04
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Resident Soviet
Post 10 May 2006, 03:10
Dariuz & Red Rebel:

Quote:
Yugoslavia was the most prosperous Eastern European country in communist days, the living standard was much higher than in the Warsaw Pact


Quote:
We had a great living standard, there even was a feeling of superiority to the rest of the eastern european country's, when Polish and Czechoslowakian people came to Yugoslavia for vacation we laughed at them because they were so poor dressed


Quote:
The quality of life was better than the Warsaw Pact but I don't have any statistics.


I know GNP isn't a perfect measure, but still:

GDR:

Quote:
US$1637 billion in 1984; US$9,800 GNP per capita


Czechoslovakia:

Quote:
US$135.6 billion in 1985. Per capita GNP US$8,700


USSR:

Quote:
US$2.4 trillion in 1986; US$8,375 per capita in 1986


Hungary:

Quote:
US$84 billion in 1986; US$7,910 per capita


Yugoslavia:

Quote:
US$120.1 billion in 1990, or US$5.040 per capita. Average growth rate 0.5 percent in 1981-88 period.



Romania, Bulgaria, Albania and Poland had lower standards (according to the source).

Source:
http://reference.allrefer.com/


Toveri Pave

Quote:
So, I could use Tito's Yugoslavia as a counter-argument to the claim that socialism naturally is about tyranny and oppressing people, which seems to always pop around.


Yugoslavia is not the only example of such socialism. You could make a strong argument about most of the rest of Eastern Europe under socialism as well in that regard. It certainly is easier to have a discussion with people and mention Yugoslavia (the socialist experience of which not many average people will know too much about) than it is about the USSR, whose characteristically evil, oppressive, and economically poor nature is drilled into most minds at a young age. But that does not mean you have to acknowledge as 'fact' that the USSR was everything that everyone with no experience of the country seems to say it is.


About Yugoslavia in general, even if it was a great country, and Tito a good leader (both statements true in my view) that doesn't mean that we have to praise forever his rule and the man himself. It is a major problem for a country if it has no successful institutional design for power changing hands; Tito's embodyment of the state helped to prevent the creation of such a system, though Yugoslavia was by no means alone in this endevour (the USSR also failed in this regard, as evidenced by the assumption of power of Mikhail Gorbachev). And though it is true that Tito was largely independent and resourceful (ie flexible with some capitalist ideas) those qualities only worked to weaken world socialist unity, and to strengthen the views of some (like the Soviets) that he was a revisionist.
"The thing about capitalism is that it sounds awful on paper and is horrendous in practice. Communism sounds wonderful on paper and when it was put into practice it was done pretty well for what they had to work with." -MiG
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Soviet cogitations: 344
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 15 May 2005, 17:11
Komsomol
Post 10 May 2006, 14:32
Being stubborn like some other communist states were isn't going to help the economy, you have to make changes in order to survive, one of the main reasons communism fell in eastern europe is because they made too little changes and the economy stagnated, this doesn't mean that you have to implement capitalist ideas but you have too change they way you approach things and especially the huge burocracy didn't do the communist bloc any good.
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Soviet cogitations: 1911
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Jun 2003, 23:38
Old Bolshevik
Post 11 May 2006, 11:01
Yugoslavia didnt work out either, did it?
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Soviet cogitations: 344
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 15 May 2005, 17:11
Komsomol
Post 11 May 2006, 12:24
It had it's flaws, like every other country, but while it lasted it was better than any of the Warsaw Pact members
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Soviet cogitations: 2693
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 01 Mar 2006, 08:59
Party Bureaucrat
Post 13 May 2006, 22:54
I don't think material wealth alone is a standard by which we should measure progress under socialism to communism.

As it was pointed out, GDR had an extremely high standard of living as well as Yugoslavia.

The differential between Yu & GDR versus Poland, etc has something to do with the level of development of productive forces (advanced industrial conomies versus not so advanced) as well as leadership. After all, GDR had very different ideas than Yugo relatively speaking.

But progress of socialism should also be measured by liberation of humanity rather than economistic concerns alone.
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"To know a thing you must study it." --Dagoth Ur
Soviet cogitations: 113
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Dec 2004, 12:11
Pioneer
Post 22 May 2006, 09:20
i think study of the yugoslav system is very important to understand one of the better, more socialistic systems that existed in the 20th century, especially looking at economic relations, but it is also important to realize that Tito obviously did create a dependency on one leader, bcuz if he hadnt, then it wouldnt have started crumbling in 1980 toward what happened in the 1990s.
[url=http://www.infoshop.org/journals/blogs/UrbanGuerrilla]To tell the truth is revolutionary.
Antonio Gramsci[/url]
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Soviet cogitations: 3553
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 17 Jul 2006, 00:10
Ideology: Other Leftist
Forum Commissar
Post 17 Jul 2006, 03:37
crumbling started because of the national tentions and incompitence of future leaders. miloÅ¡ević belived he could rule the federation with serbs alone. federal army thought otherwise and collapsed in 1991 because it was international army. if kardelj would still be alive collaps might not have occured. saddly he died in 1978 and people had no old guards to look up to. tito will forever remain in our hearths, no matter how hard the revisionists will work.
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Jugoslavija je bleda slika
premrzlega partizana
zato je njeno ljudstvo navajeno trpeti
zato je njeno ljudstvo pripravljeno umreti.

-Via Ofenziva

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Soviet cogitations: 10461
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Aug 2006, 17:42
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
R.I.P.
Post 22 Aug 2006, 21:25
If they came back out with the Yugo, what would it be called now? the Slov? or perhaps the Cro?

I'd prefer the srpska.....
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Soviet cogitations: 3553
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 17 Jul 2006, 00:10
Ideology: Other Leftist
Forum Commissar
Post 22 Aug 2006, 23:29
you and no one else
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Jugoslavija je bleda slika
premrzlega partizana
zato je njeno ljudstvo navajeno trpeti
zato je njeno ljudstvo pripravljeno umreti.

-Via Ofenziva

Forum Rules
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Soviet cogitations: 10461
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Aug 2006, 17:42
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
R.I.P.
Post 23 Aug 2006, 00:37
fair cop....
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Soviet cogitations: 3553
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 17 Jul 2006, 00:10
Ideology: Other Leftist
Forum Commissar
Post 23 Aug 2006, 01:12
yes...
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Jugoslavija je bleda slika
premrzlega partizana
zato je njeno ljudstvo navajeno trpeti
zato je njeno ljudstvo pripravljeno umreti.

-Via Ofenziva

Forum Rules
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Soviet cogitations: 10461
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Aug 2006, 17:42
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
R.I.P.
Post 24 Aug 2006, 03:14
So will the EU have to dissove to effectively forsee a Reunification or are the ethnic divisions irreparable?
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Soviet cogitations: 3553
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 17 Jul 2006, 00:10
Ideology: Other Leftist
Forum Commissar
Post 24 Aug 2006, 03:59
its not irreparable, but it will take a lot of time to get better. i'd say at least 50-100 years
Image


Jugoslavija je bleda slika
premrzlega partizana
zato je njeno ljudstvo navajeno trpeti
zato je njeno ljudstvo pripravljeno umreti.

-Via Ofenziva

Forum Rules
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 10461
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Aug 2006, 17:42
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
R.I.P.
Post 24 Aug 2006, 04:30
this must be a pretty sore subject over there....

that is a long speculative time....
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Soviet cogitations: 3553
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 17 Jul 2006, 00:10
Ideology: Other Leftist
Forum Commissar
Post 24 Aug 2006, 04:42
it is indeed. goverment may say we have good relations, but what people think is an entierly other matter. i cant really say what are the relations bettwen other republics, but i think other goverments are far more hostile than ours and openly support criminals (tuđman for example, was a proustashe and the only reporter who is currently speaking against him has to be guarded because of all the death threats he received)
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Jugoslavija je bleda slika
premrzlega partizana
zato je njeno ljudstvo navajeno trpeti
zato je njeno ljudstvo pripravljeno umreti.

-Via Ofenziva

Forum Rules
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 10461
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Aug 2006, 17:42
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
R.I.P.
Post 24 Aug 2006, 21:44
Quote:
proustashe


Please pardon my english speaking ignorance...

I cannot source this word.... or find a definition on the web... could you please help me out....

The two google matches on line are not in english....
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User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 3553
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 17 Jul 2006, 00:10
Ideology: Other Leftist
Forum Commissar
Post 24 Aug 2006, 21:50
my mistake, i should have written pro-ustashe. this are ustashe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ustashe
Image


Jugoslavija je bleda slika
premrzlega partizana
zato je njeno ljudstvo navajeno trpeti
zato je njeno ljudstvo pripravljeno umreti.

-Via Ofenziva

Forum Rules
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 10461
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Aug 2006, 17:42
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
R.I.P.
Post 24 Aug 2006, 22:03
awww,,,I should have figured that out myself,,

so this policy is similar to Ion Antonescu during WWII in Romania.

interesting series of events in 1944 romania....
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Soviet cogitations: 60
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 24 Jan 2006, 20:36
Pioneer
Post 12 Nov 2006, 22:26
I dont believe there will be reunification ever again. Yugoslavia was artificial state which functioned only during East-West world.

Repubublics of former Yugoslavia are doing just fine by themselves. Slovenia (member of EU) and Croatia (member in waiting) little better than others, though.
Za Domovinu s Titom, napred!
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