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The Number: Quantifying Crimes Against Humanity in Cambodia

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Soviet cogitations: 110
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 04 Jan 2003, 22:40
Pioneer
Post 25 Mar 2005, 18:05
If you read some of the articles Ixabert posted below you could get the idea that the Khmer Rouge was not responsible for millions of deaths during their rule in Cambodia. Nothing could be further from the truth. As of 1999, the Documentation Centre of Cambodia's mass grave mapping project had found over 1.1 million victims of execution alone in mass graves near Khmer Rouge security centres.

Quote:
MAPPING PROJECT 1999:

THE NANALYSIS
“The Number” -- Quantifying Crimes Against Humanity in Cambodia

Craig Etcheson

Introduction

1999 was the fifth year of the Documentation Center of Cambodia’s (DC-Cam) Mass Grave Mapping Project, and this report describes the fieldwork in those efforts. This year’s report details missions by DC-Cam Mapping Teams to twelve of Cambodia’s twenty-one provinces, including Banteay Meanchey, Kampong Chhnang, Kampong Speu, Kampong Thom, Kandal, Kratie, Phnom Penh, Prey Veng, Siem Reap, Takeo, Mondulkiri and Ratanakiri provinces. Thus the report covers all corners of Cambodia, from the densely populated south to the jungle-clad north, from the remote reaches of the east to the far western rice bowl, and provinces in Cambodia’s heartland around the Great Lake.

As in previous years’ work, there is a depressing uniformity of findings: witnesses testify to torture and murder on an astounding scale, and remains of mass graves and former Khmer Rouge prisons provide their own mute testimony, littering the countryside as physical evidence of these crimes. It happened everywhere, and it happened in much the same way across the country. This confirms that the Khmer Rouge terror was both massive and systematic, which meets one of the key criteria in the definition of crimes against humanity. A brief review of some of this year’s findings drives home this stark reality.


The rest of it can be found here.

Some of the more significant findings:

Quote:
Although this work is not yet complete, the results to date are quite startling. So far, 20,492 mass graves dating from the Khmer Rouge regime, spread all across Cambodia, have been precisely surveyed. According to the data, these mass graves contain the remains of 1,112,829 victims of execution.

Let’s look a little more closely at these numbers. Between 1995 and the end of 1999, Documentation Center mass grave mapping teams had visited twenty out of Cambodia’s twenty-one provinces. Of Cambodia’s 170 districts, the teams had made at least one visit to 150 of the districts. In the process, they have managed to survey somewhat more than two-thirds of Cambodia’s sub-districts. Many sub-districts in the northern and northwestern regions of the country have not yet been carefully surveyed, due to obvious security considerations. Preah Vihear province has not been surveyed at all, as yet. Some Khmer Rouge remained in armed opposition to the government in these regions until the beginning of 1999, and though the armed insurgency has since ceased, these same people still live there, and they remain heavily armed. (See Table 1: Summary Statistics)

Because anecdotal evidence leads to the suspicion that northwestern provinces such as Battambang and Banteay Meanchey had very high rates of execution during the Khmer Rouge regime, it is expected that the estimated number of victims in the mass graves will rise significantly when the mapping surveys are finally completed. Therefore, the total number of victims identified in mass graves could eventually reach substantially higher, perhaps as high as 1.5 million.

The more than twenty thousand mass graves mapped so far are virtually all located at, or near, Khmer Rouge security centers. Eyewitnesses at most of these mass grave sites have testified that the graves contain victims brought there by Khmer Rouge security forces, and that the victims were murdered either in the adjacent prisons or at the mass grave sites themselves. Thus one may conclude that virtually all of the mass graves contain victims whose cause of death was execution by the Khmer Rouge.


(emphasis mine)

Considering that report was published in 1999, and the mapping project continued until 2004, there are probably hundreds of thousands more victims yet to be discovered.

This is a nice map of all the mass graves discovered so far:
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The Cambodian Genocide Project has provincial maps showing mass graves as well.
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Soviet cogitations: 110
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 04 Jan 2003, 22:40
Pioneer
Post 16 Apr 2005, 05:12
Quote:
Not all the people killed under the Khmer Rouge were killed by the Khmer Rouge. And most of the killings which were carried out by the Khmer Rouge were justified.


I said that the Khmer Rouge were responsible for millions of deaths. This does not mean that they went and killed every single person found in a mass grave, however their policies are to blame for the excessive mortality of this period.

Quote:
By the way, show me one scrap of evidence that the quoted material you pasted corresponds with reality


There are plenty of published witness accounts to back the DC-Cam's findings up. Try the autobiographies of Ngor Haing, Pin Yathay or Him Chanrithy. They all describe killing on a massive scale that corresponds to the DC-Cam's findings.

Quote:
Most of those people died from starvation, and were not killed by the Khmer Rouge. And many of the rest of them were not Cambodian, but of Vietnamese extraction.


No, the article specifically refers to the people in the mass graves near security centres being executed. I suppose that they could have died from torture as well.

Ngor Haing's descriptions of Khmer Rouge security centres (he was tortured in them three times) place them away from collectives and other inhabited areas, so it seems likely that people found buried near the centres would have died at the centre.
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Soviet cogitations: 1180
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 25 Jan 2005, 10:55
Party Member
Post 08 Aug 2005, 10:49
I have read the Historical Secondary Source book “First They Killed My Father”. None of the deaths were justified. Pol Pot was a complete lunatic with no proper grip on reality. Just have a read of what happened back then and tell me otherwise.

Quote:
...not to mention the fast-expanding South Vietnamese Air Force.


Please correct me if I am wrong, but wasn’t South Vietnam taken over in 1975, and wasn’t the ‘communist’ takeover of Cambodia also in 1975?
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“Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.” - Charles De Gaulle
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Soviet cogitations: 4500
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Oct 2004, 22:04
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Resident Soviet
Post 08 Aug 2005, 16:49
Pol Pot's regime is an embarassment to the communist ideal. The Vietnamese invasion in 1979 truly was a godsend for the Cambodian people (you were right about the takeover of South Vietnam date though Comrade Bendeguz)

http://www.mekong.net/cambodia/jan7.htm

A personal account I found on Vietnam's actions in Cambodia.


PS: I can't resist the urge to add in, for ideological debate, that China supported Pol Pot's regime while the USSR supported Vietnam.
"The thing about capitalism is that it sounds awful on paper and is horrendous in practice. Communism sounds wonderful on paper and when it was put into practice it was done pretty well for what they had to work with." -MiG
[+-]
Soviet cogitations: 110
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 04 Jan 2003, 22:40
Pioneer
Post 08 Aug 2005, 17:45
Quote:
Please correct me if I am wrong, but wasn’t South Vietnam taken over in 1975, and wasn’t the ‘communist’ takeover of Cambodia also in 1975?


I believe he meant that the SVN Air Force was bombing Cambodia during the 1970-1975 civil war. The United States and South Vietnam strongly supported the Khmer Republic government led by Lon Nol and actively engaged in bombing Khmer Rouge forces during this time.

Also, North Vietnamese forces invaded Cambodia for a time in the early 1970s, and the South likely tried to fight them in Cambodia at this time as well.


Quote:
Pol Pot's regime is an embarassment to the communist ideal. The Vietnamese invasion in 1979 truly was a godsend for the Cambodian people


It also brought in 10 years of Vietnamese domination, something that a lot of Cambodians got quite sick of. The new regime was communist too (straight out of the ranks of the Khmer Rouge), and a lot of Cambodians mistrusted all communists after the Democratic Kampuchean years.
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Soviet cogitations: 4500
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Oct 2004, 22:04
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Resident Soviet
Post 08 Aug 2005, 19:39
Quote:
It also brought in 10 years of Vietnamese domination, something that a lot of Cambodians got quite sick of. The new regime was communist too (straight out of the ranks of the Khmer Rouge), and a lot of Cambodians mistrusted all communists after the Democratic Kampuchean years.


Vietnam relinquished control of the country in 1993, and the Cambodian People's Party (highly pro-Vietnam) is still winning elections to this day. Of course some people may have become sick of Vietnamese domination, but the repressions of that regime are nothing compared to Pol Pot. The continual reelection of the CPP shows how the majority of Cambodians feel on the issue, I think.
"The thing about capitalism is that it sounds awful on paper and is horrendous in practice. Communism sounds wonderful on paper and when it was put into practice it was done pretty well for what they had to work with." -MiG
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Soviet cogitations: 1180
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 25 Jan 2005, 10:55
Party Member
Post 08 Aug 2005, 23:28
Anything would be better than Pol Pot and the Angkar. Some of the things they did…
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“Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.” - Charles De Gaulle
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Soviet cogitations: 3508
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Jun 2005, 23:39
Politburo
Post 29 Aug 2005, 09:45
Quote:
And most of the killings which were carried out by the Khmer Rouge were justified.


How can you say these killings (or even some of these killings) were justified?!

This is possible the most ridiculous comment I have ever read on this forum (just behind a few of J.Jordans enlightened statements).

Really DPRK - think before posting!
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'Soviet-Empire. 500% more methods than other leading brands.'
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Soviet cogitations: 4698
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 13 Jun 2005, 23:41
Politburo
Post 29 Aug 2005, 10:20
Quote:
And most of the killings which were carried out by the Khmer Rouge were justified.


In fact, I would go further to say that how can any killings, let alone mass killings, be justified? How can you call yourself a socialist if you can justify killings like that? Fraternal love is a vital element of socialism, without it, you become no better than your enemies!
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