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Mongolia

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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Dec 2004, 23:53
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 12 Jan 2005, 18:47
I know Mongolia was communist (it was in between the 2 largest/strongest communist nations how could it not). But it is not communist now. What happened? Was it actually communist or was it a country who said it was communist but was actually capitalist.
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"By what standard of morality can the violence used by a slave to break his chains be considered the same as the violence of a slave master?" - Walter Rodney
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 05 Mar 2003, 16:07
Komsomol
Post 12 Jan 2005, 19:37
Red Rebel wrote:
I know Mongolia was communist (it was in between the 2 largest/strongest communist nations how could it not). But it is not communist now. What happened? Was it actually communist or was it a country who said it was communist but was actually capitalist.


Revolutions in Mongolia and Tannu Tuva happened right after the Russian Revolution. These countries heavily depended on Russian help, that is why they were often called "Soviet puppets", but Mongolia always stayed more "Leninist" and "social democratic" than USSR and Tannu Tuva (which was peacefully annexed by Soviet Union in 1936 via referendum).

Mongols fought off Japanese invasion with the help of Soviet forces, I read about their heroic border guard Zhamsuren who was first to meet Japanese aggressors. He alone survived in a border clash and fought his way out of encirclement to Soviet positions in Halhin-Gol. There were many other Mongolian heroes in the war, like legendary general Dandar Luton and his "ciriks" - Mongolian Red Guards.

Yes, and they still celebrate their Revolution (it happened in 1921, on 11th of July if I'm not mistaken). Their government is quite democratic and Mongolian People's Revolutionary Party is still in power (as far as I know). MPRP has done much good to the country during eighty years of its existence, but they are more of socialists than communists, and they have yet to solve many problems. All in all, Mongolia is like Vietnam of today...
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Oct 2004, 22:04
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Resident Soviet
Post 12 Jan 2005, 19:38
Mongolia was a communist nation, and in fact there were plans to join it to the USSR to be a republic. When things got heated with China the plan was cancelled. I've seen photographs and short clips, and as far as I'm concerned the country looks much like Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan or any other south-eastern Soviet area (in terms of development and infrastructure).

As far as I know the country was generally poor, and many of the pictures I saw had many Russian made vehicles (and Russian designed buildings). Much of the nomadic culture remains. Horses far outnumber automobiles as transport, and some people (outside cities) still live in huts.

I believe the country got rid of communism in the early 1990s, the same as the Eastern Bloc countries and the USSR. The reason? I believe because they were closer to Russia than China (much closer), and couldn't afford to run their system without Russian help, so they lost their power. I do remember, however that the Communist party there is still pretty powerful there and that in recent elections they did get a lot of votes (I'm not sure if it was a majority or not).

That's all I know (or think I know). I'm sure there's someone with much greater knowledge and they should speak out.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 04 Jan 2003, 22:40
Pioneer
Post 12 Jan 2005, 23:22
Mongolia had their revolution in 1921, which established a monarchy. When their traditional king died in 1924 he was not replaced and the country became the Mongolian People's Republic.

It was basically run like most Soviet allies, one-party government, etc. This regime fell in 1990 when Zhambyn Batmunkh resigned. The MPRP continued to rule until 1996, was in opposition 1996-2000, and in government again from 2000-2004.

It's currently led by Nambaryn Enkhbayar, who is said to admire European social democratic parties and Tony Blair. They are no longer in power, having lost in a landslide in August 2004.

Mongolia's President, Natsagiyn Bagabandi, is from the MPRP.

Mongolia is still a rather poor country.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Dec 2004, 23:53
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 13 Jan 2005, 18:17
Thank you comrades for the information it has been most helpful.
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"By what standard of morality can the violence used by a slave to break his chains be considered the same as the violence of a slave master?" - Walter Rodney
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 02 Mar 2004, 15:19
Ideology: Other Leftist
Old Bolshevik
Post 13 Jan 2005, 18:22
The idea that there are more horses than cars is ridiculous if you are talking about in the cities (like Ulan Bataar).

And it's only natural among the nomadic tribes.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Oct 2004, 22:04
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Resident Soviet
Post 13 Jan 2005, 18:27
No, wheelchairman I wasn't talking about cities. I was talking about the country as a whole. I've read that something like 10/1 ratio or something overall.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 22 Mar 2004, 17:55
Komsomol
Post 14 Jan 2005, 18:25
Ulan Bator is the only real city/town in the whole coutnry as far as I know so it odesn't surprise me that people on the plains/steppe still live in huts or jurtas.
-"One of the lasses I know is a 32D...yes, I'm a horny, unsuccessful virgin." - LPC reveals all on MSN
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 25 Jan 2005, 10:55
Party Member
Post 08 Aug 2005, 10:37
Isn’t it spelled ‘Yurt’?
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“Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.” - Charles De Gaulle
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Jun 2006, 00:25
Pioneer
Post 20 Jul 2006, 19:34
Well you learn something new everyday, so they aren’t really Socialists anymore? Just reformers hoping to achieve Socialism eventually…
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Dec 2004, 23:53
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 20 Jul 2006, 19:40
Basically they are maintaining power via elections. Wiki:
Quote:
In 1990, the Communist Party relinquished control over the government, without a single bullet being fired. A new constitution was prepared in 1992 that abolished the People's Republic and created a democratic state.


Quote:
Until June 27, 2004, the predominant party in Mongolia was the ex-communist party Mongolian People's Revolutionary Party or MPRP, which was formed by Mongolia's communist leaders after the end of the Cold War. The main opposition party was the Democratic Party or DP, which controlled a governing coalition from 1996 to 2000.

From 2000 to 2004 MPRP was back in power, but results of the 2004 elections required the establishing of the first ever coalition government in Mongolia between the MPRP and MDC (Motherland Democratic Coalition).
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"By what standard of morality can the violence used by a slave to break his chains be considered the same as the violence of a slave master?" - Walter Rodney
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 26 Jul 2006, 10:21
Party Member
Post 03 Aug 2006, 10:04
I'm not a big ace on Mongolian sociopolitical history, but I do know that they're borrowing big time ADB (Asian Development Bank) loans. Sure, many physical aspects of their society still carry the Russian legacy. Like the trucks, the TV station etc.

But, as we all know, borrowing an ADB/ World Bank/ IMF etc. loans come w/ preconditions- embracing corporate capitalism as an economic model... .. .
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 03 Jul 2004, 16:52
Komsomol
Post 22 Aug 2006, 18:16
Quote:
I know Mongolia was communist


If Mongolia was communist, the state would have withered away and Mongolia would be classless and ruled by the people.

Even if we are going to stretch it to "socialism", we must ask ourselves if the people ruled in Mongolia? The answer is no.

So Mongolia has not been socialist and is not now.

How come people celebrate these undemocratic near-one man regimes? That is quite anti-communist.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Aug 2006, 17:42
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
R.I.P.
Post 22 Aug 2006, 18:24
Quote:
If Mongolia was communist, the state would have withered away and Mongolia would be classless and ruled by the people.


I think we all know that is a description of pure communism and that has never happened.

The USSR was communist, their government never withered.

Cuba and china same thing......
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 03 Jul 2004, 16:52
Komsomol
Post 22 Aug 2006, 18:50
Quote:
The USSR was communist


Could you elaborate on that?

Thanks
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Aug 2006, 17:42
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
R.I.P.
Post 22 Aug 2006, 19:23
well, we're have the same discussion in the china thread aren't we? this is the same substance we are debating about....

ideal communism or active-seeking communism I think this is going down the same road.....
Soviet cogitations: 562
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 03 Jul 2004, 16:52
Komsomol
Post 22 Aug 2006, 19:48
Quote:
well, we're have the same discussion in the china thread aren't we? this is the same substance we are debating about....

Yes, you're right.
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Soviet cogitations: 10797
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Dec 2004, 23:53
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 22 Aug 2006, 20:32
Quote:
If Mongolia was communist


Not the final stage but the idea of "communism."

Quote:
we must ask ourselves if the people ruled in Mongolia? The answer is no.


Can you source this? I don't have an in depth knowledge of Mongolia, accoriding to Wiki, it was a socialist state.
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"By what standard of morality can the violence used by a slave to break his chains be considered the same as the violence of a slave master?" - Walter Rodney
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Soviet cogitations: 10461
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Aug 2006, 17:42
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
R.I.P.
Post 01 Sep 2006, 05:09
Quote:
Mongolia was a communist nation


not meaning to be sour,, but every time I say a country is communist, someone splits hairs with me to say there's no such thing as a communist nation or a communist state. Communism has no government......


so now it's my turn!!!!


hehehehehe
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Jan 2007, 19:29
Komsomol
Post 22 Jan 2007, 20:32
Mongolia was the second country to be governed by communists after the russian revolution. Life very much improved under communist rule and after 7 decades the socialist system was abolished. Since then things have become worst.

From a BBC report on post communist mongolia:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6252741.stm

Quote:
Our life was good during communism but capitalism has left us with nothing. The government has done nothing to help us and nobody cares.


Quote:
But despite these changes, between one third and one half of the country lives in poverty, according to government statistics.

Many of them end up in the vast shanty towns on the outskirts of Ulan Bator, surviving on just a few dollars a day.


There we have it, capitalism just sucks
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