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Are people in NK really starving?

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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 28 Apr 2013, 20:13
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Post 05 May 2013, 21:03
Long have I heard that people in the DPRK are starving.. is this true? Are they really starving? Or is this just bourgeois lies? If you any sources that would be helpful as well.
Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
Philosophized
Post 05 May 2013, 21:37
Yes, DPRK agriculture is in a chronic crisis and the food supply is always precarious.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
Ideology: Trotskyism
Philosophized
Post 05 May 2013, 22:14
I guess it depends on where you live, your social status, the time of the year, whether you're an army member, and what your definition of "starving" is. I don't think people still die of hunger in big numbers as they did in the 90s, but I'm sure the vast majority of North Koreans are more or less malnourished. Just look at them if you want a source. (Kim Fat Un doesn't count)
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 04 Feb 2013, 06:55
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
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Post 07 May 2013, 15:29
Yes, and if any person that says its because of Western aggression is a moron, the DPRK gives all of there food to the military and none to the people who actually need it.
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Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
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Post 07 May 2013, 15:34
For all their nationalism and talks of "self-sufficiency" the North Koreans never built a modern ( or at least functioning ) economy. As soon as Soviet oil stoped flowing the country fell into a decades-long coma. Cuba at least exports medicine and other things, DPRK doesn't export anything the world needs, except maybe rockets to Iran.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Sep 2006, 22:05
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
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Post 07 May 2013, 16:06
Eire wrote:
Yes, and if any person that says its because of Western aggression is a moron, the DPRK gives all of there food to the military and none to the people who actually need it.

Yeah responding to critical levels of foreign pressure by feeding those actually capable of fighting off those enemies is completely illogical. Also proof that the military are the only ones getting food would be nice.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 16 Dec 2011, 00:54
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Komsomol
Post 08 May 2013, 01:42
Has NK any infrastructure for Hydroponics or Aquaponics?
"A shiny bauble from Capitalism is worthless when the cost is Children & the Elderly going hungry, The Infirm & Sick dying because of Greed & Education reduced to a token few to placate the masses with Illusions of freedom."
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Sep 2006, 22:05
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Post 08 May 2013, 15:18
Not really. The main problem for the DPRK is the access to fuel. Back when they received heavily subsidized fuel from the USSR the DPRK was able to produce so much food that they sent aid to the South. This fact renders two main points: 1) that autarky in the DPRK has always been nonsense, and 2) the food crisis in the DPRK is the fault of oil markets and near worthless allies.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 04 Feb 2013, 06:55
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
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Post 08 May 2013, 15:38
Dagoth Ur wrote:
Yeah responding to critical levels of foreign pressure by feeding those actually capable of fighting off those enemies is completely illogical. Also proof that the military are the only ones getting food would be nice.


Yes, because the people who make your country and keep it running do not deserve food BUT yes, lets give it to the Prison Camp Soldiers who who "defend" the Juche idea by keeping families who wanted food and freedom. So yes! THEY DEFEND THEIR COUNTRY FROM THEIR OWN PEOPLE'S BIRTH RIGHT OF FREE WILL. And whats the DPRK's threat? Their own government and military.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 08 Aug 2011, 22:59
Ideology: Other Leftist
Komsomol
Post 08 May 2013, 22:11
Dagoth Ur wrote:
Not really. The main problem for the DPRK is the access to fuel. Back when they received heavily subsidized fuel from the USSR the DPRK was able to produce so much food that they sent aid to the South. This fact renders two main points: 1) that autarky in the DPRK has always been nonsense, and 2) the food crisis in the DPRK is the fault of oil markets and near worthless allies.

Let me get this straight: the "alleged" food problem in the DPRK is definitely not caused by NK's government willing to spend all the money on military but rather their allies who don't contribute enough funds to NK so some money would be left to buy food outside the NK?
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Sep 2006, 22:05
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Post 09 May 2013, 04:50
Eire wrote:
Yes, because the people who make your country and keep it running do not deserve food BUT yes, lets give it to the Prison Camp Soldiers who who "defend" the Juche idea by keeping families who wanted food and freedom. So yes! THEY DEFEND THEIR COUNTRY FROM THEIR OWN PEOPLE'S BIRTH RIGHT OF FREE WILL. And whats the DPRK's threat? Their own government and military.

lol your emotional hyperventilating aside I can't help but laugh at your statement here. It's the soldiers of the DPRK, who're keeping imperialists from turning every North Korean into a corpse or sweat-shop whore, that are the problem. It's not like imperialist vultures are sniping at every failure of the DPRK, or trying every day to undermine the DPRK, amirite?

EdvardK wrote:
Let me get this straight: the "alleged" food problem in the DPRK is definitely not caused by NK's government willing to spend all the money on military but rather their allies who don't contribute enough funds to NK so some money would be left to buy food outside the NK?

I'm not saying the DPRK has not exacerbated their problems but that fuel is their main issue. Secondly the DPRK does not really have the luxury of not spending copious amounts of mine on their military when several nations are waiting on their doorstep, mouths drooling with anticipation, for the chance to get in on the exploitation of North Koreans. Barracks Communism was forced on the DPRK by their material situation. Kim il-Sung never intended for Korea to turn out this way.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 04 Feb 2013, 06:55
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
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Post 11 May 2013, 18:44
Dagoth Ur wrote:
lol your emotional hyperventilating aside I can't help but laugh at your statement here. It's the soldiers of the DPRK, who're keeping imperialists from turning every North Korean into a corpse or sweat-shop whore, that are the problem. It's not like imperialist vultures are sniping at every failure of the DPRK, or trying every day to undermine the DPRK, amirite?


Look at you spouting that imperialist cramp that the KCNA brainwashes you with. Most of the N. Korean people are corpses because of the starvation and executions causes by the Kim Regimes and atleast working at a sweat shop earns you some money whereas the N. Korean labor camps is forced labor with no pay. Every failure? You mean everything they say or do?
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
Ideology: Trotskyism
Philosophized
Post 11 May 2013, 19:25
It's entirely absurd to blame the North Korean leadership for the starvation of the country. The general poverty is not their fault. In times of extreme poverty, any leadership would allow starvation among the people instead of somehow sacrificing themselves. It is also normal not to give food to imprisoned criminals when there isn't enough for everyone. But it is not the Kim's fault that there is not enough for everyone. Do you think they're acting out of pure sadism? Of course they would prefer to see happy people in their country, if only to make their own "thriving country" propaganda less embarrassing, but the US won't let them do this.
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Sep 2006, 22:05
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Post 11 May 2013, 19:40
Not to mention that the DPRK above all seeks stability. A flaw no doubt but a product of nearly seventy years of Cold War.

@eire: when the DPRK kills an entire third of the North Koreans, like America did last time it invaded Korea, we'll talk about any sort of equality between the DPRK and her enemies. You refuse to understand the Korean mindset, nor the fact that they are surrounded by enemies including their nominal allies.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 04 Feb 2013, 06:55
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
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Post 11 May 2013, 20:54
Dagoth Ur wrote:
Not to mention that the DPRK above all seeks stability. A flaw no doubt but a product of nearly seventy years of Cold War.

@eire: when the DPRK kills an entire third of the North Koreans, like America did last time it invaded Korea, we'll talk about any sort of equality between the DPRK and her enemies. You refuse to understand the Korean mindset, nor the fact that they are surrounded by enemies including their nominal allies.


The DPRK seeks stablility? hahhaa, while they threaten Thermo-Nuclear War? You make me laugh. And what was the reason the US entered into the DPRK? Oh yeah, the DPRK unjustly invaded the South where they would have murdered the entire population. Oh I understand the NORTH Korean mindset "YOU WORSHIP THE KIM'S OR ELSE YOU DIE!"

Chill with the caps lock. This is a discussion forum, not an image board.

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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Sep 2006, 22:05
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Post 11 May 2013, 23:32
Eire wrote:
The DPRK seeks stablility? hahhaa, while they threaten Thermo-Nuclear War? You make me laugh

Bluffs are designed to keep things stable. Stability means legitimacy and survival.

Eire wrote:
And what was the reason the US entered into the DPRK?

To make gains in Asia before they fell to communist revolutions. Same reason we atom bombed Japan. Because the Soviets would have made it to Tokyo first too.

Eire wrote:
Oh yeah, the DPRK unjustly invaded the South where they would have murdered the entire population.

A. So-called "South Korea" is directly descended from the Japanese Occupational Government and led by the exact same men. It's not an invasion to attempt to destroy a collaborationist government still in your country. Besides South Korea, exactly like South Vietnam, were American creations.
B. Soith Korean casualties in the hot part of the war were like around ten percent, North Korea's were over thirty. Who was trying to kill more of who?

Eire wrote:
Oh I understand the NORTH Korean mindset "YOU WORSHIP THE KIM'S OR ELSE YOU DIE!"

Yup in between sacrificing puppies and kittens to songun.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Mar 2008, 22:11
Party Member
Post 20 Jun 2013, 17:31
Dagoth Ur wrote:
Not really. The main problem for the DPRK is the access to fuel. Back when they received heavily subsidized fuel from the USSR the DPRK was able to produce so much food that they sent aid to the South. This fact renders two main points: 1) that autarky in the DPRK has always been nonsense, and 2) the food crisis in the DPRK is the fault of oil markets and near worthless allies.


I'm curious though. Couldn't they use solar power? I've seen them use it with water so why not go that route at the same time?
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Oct 2004, 22:04
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Resident Soviet
Post 20 Jun 2013, 18:28
Things like solar power are not a one-size-fits-all solution. There's the access to technology/expensive infrastructure problem, but also the fact that the DPRK does not have access to a bunch of flat desert territory where sun is constantly beaming down. How many rich Western countries have developed a major solar power strategy over the last couple decades? Now imagine a small, rocky third world country trying to do something like that.

In addition to fuel, the DPRK's problem is also that it cannot know for certain that the Chinese will defend them in the event of war -the unreliable nominal ally, as Dagoth put it. During the Cold War, North Korea knew that any confrontation had the danger of escalating to a worldwide conflict between socialist and imperialist camps, and could plan its military budget and strategy accordingly. Since the Cold War's end, it has beefed up its military in an attempt to make up for the disappearance of the USSR, and the reorientation of China toward economic partnership with the ROK and the US. Plus there's history -1/3 of the country killed in the conflict half a century ago. How critics can expect that a people and leadership are supposed to forget all that and act 'rational' when survivors of that horror are still around is beyond me.
"The thing about capitalism is that it sounds awful on paper and is horrendous in practice. Communism sounds wonderful on paper and when it was put into practice it was done pretty well for what they had to work with." -MiG
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Sep 2006, 22:05
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 20 Jun 2013, 18:47
The Jews lost a smaller percentage in the holocaust and look how much that fragged them up as a people. The Koreans are an even more extreme example of this same reaction.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Mar 2008, 22:11
Party Member
Post 21 Jun 2013, 03:34
soviet78 wrote:
Things like solar power are not a one-size-fits-all solution. There's the access to technology/expensive infrastructure problem, but also the fact that the DPRK does not have access to a bunch of flat desert territory where sun is constantly beaming down. How many rich Western countries have developed a major solar power strategy over the last couple decades? Now imagine a small, rocky third world country trying to do something like that.

In addition to fuel, the DPRK's problem is also that it cannot know for certain that the Chinese will defend them in the event of war -the unreliable nominal ally, as Dagoth put it. During the Cold War, North Korea knew that any confrontation had the danger of escalating to a worldwide conflict between socialist and imperialist camps, and could plan its military budget and strategy accordingly. Since the Cold War's end, it has beefed up its military in an attempt to make up for the disappearance of the USSR, and the reorientation of China toward economic partnership with the ROK and the US. Plus there's history -1/3 of the country killed in the conflict half a century ago. How critics can expect that a people and leadership are supposed to forget all that and act 'rational' when survivors of that horror are still around is beyond me.


Well, maybe not solar power but what about green technology in general? Some places are using wind as energy as well. But yes in the US even the electric car was 'killed' and anytime you have people talking about green energy you're labeled as a hippy or some lame nonsense like that.

As far as nuclear power goes I find it all to be rubbish quite honestly and think no one should have it and it shouldn't exist anymore. Of course I'm an idealist in that sense....but to me with it I just don't care for the hypocrisy with the super powers. None of them try to set an example to others. At least the South Koreans try to not have nuclear energy but of course in this day and age you don't know how long that will last....
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