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What do you think of DPRK Kim family?

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Loz
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User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 11879
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
Philosophized
Post 19 Aug 2012, 19:26
Quote:
The fact is, however, that Kim Il Sung was in a list that included possible threats against the Chinese state.

IMO it was more like a "figure of speech", given that the "list" (?) doesn't mention anyone but KIS.

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Compared to my country, the USA, Russia is a safe haven for freedom.

Nonsense.
The Russian state employs skinheads and others to beat up dissidents. For example G. Kasparov was beaten up today.

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Of course the Communist perspective views Russia as a Bourgeois Dictatorship, but how do we view it as any different from Britain or France? Is one Bourgeois Dictatorship worse than another?

Yes but Russia is far behind the West even when it comes to usual bourgeois-democratic standards so to speak.

Quote:
I happen to enjoy objectivity as opposed to slander. Anyway, the law in question is similar to the Soviet-era law which constituted a 10-15 day jail sentence, or 1 month in the labor camps, along with a fine of 10-50 rubles, for hooliganism.

One month is a lot less than 2 years.
BTW do you know that dozens of neo-Nazis who killed immigrants and foreign students in Russia got convinced under "hooliganism charges", which is more-less what PR got for some jumping in a church.

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An attack against Russia, here, is also an attack against the Soviet Union.

This is absurd.

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I was simply trying to say that there is no such thing as Totalitarianism; I have no business playing Nazi apologism. Fascism has a strange fascination with Nationalism, and it obviously punishes any ideas, or individuals, that bring debt to the Nation.

Yeah, whatever, i was only pointing out that what you wrote is wrong.






Quote:
Why would we be defending the bourgeois state church in any event? In Spain, our side burned the churches. Now we defend them?

Indeed.
PR are liberal provocateaurs but we should fight against the Church being a factor in public and political life in Russia.
Soviet cogitations: 236
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Jul 2012, 03:04
Ideology: None
Pioneer
Post 20 Aug 2012, 03:05
runequester wrote:
RT is relentlessly pro-Kremlin. It's a liberal news source.

It is actually funded by the Kremlin, much like how France 24 and the BBC are funded by their respective governments.

Voice of Russia, just like Voice of America, is government owned. Ironically it was created in 1929.


These are, in many respects, non-objective sources, but I trust the Russians for Russian news more than Americans or Brits. As I trust Americans for American news more than Russians or Brits. That seems to be a trend among Liberal news agencies, as they'll always defend their own nations against others.
Quote:
Why would we be defending the bourgeois state church in any event? In Spain, our side burned the churches. Now we defend them?

No, forget the church. I much rather see religion as a personal activity, not a community activity.

We should just let the church slowly become irreverent as time goes by. One of Enver Hoxha's mistakes was fighting against the church, with influence from Mao, which eventually backlashed against him.

Religious hatred shouldn't be considered equal to racism though.

Loz wrote:
Nonsense.
The Russian state employs skinheads and others to beat up dissidents. For example G. Kasparov was beaten up today.

I've only heard that from Journeyman Pictures, who didn't offer any evidence to back up their accusations. It seems to be more Russophobia than anything else.

Quote:
Yes but Russia is far behind the West even when it comes to usual bourgeis-democratic standards so to speak.

My country has the world's highest incarceration rate, 60% of which are Afro-Americans and Latin-Americans, while Russia is second. Unlike Russia, we completely crackdown on political opposition groups, while Russia allows them to exist to a greater extent. Sound like Russia has them beaten out.


Quote:
One month is a lot less than 2 years.

The Russian law is supposed to hold a 15 day sentence for hooliganism, but apparently their previous warnings and activities constituted a longer sentence.

Quote:
BTW do you know that dozens of neo-Nazis who killed immigrants and foreign students in Russia got convinced under "hooliganism charges", which is more-less what PR got for some jumping in a church.

Several of those groups hold powerful positions in various cities. Russia has only recently recovered its security apparatus, while the US has had solid security for as long as living people can remember.
The KKK, in some areas, are still untouchable. Does this mean the USA supports the KKK?


Quote:
This is absurd.

The Russia law was adopted from the Soviet law.
Loz
[+-]
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 11879
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
Philosophized
Post 20 Aug 2012, 06:04
Quote:
We should just let the church slowly become irreverent as time goes by. One of Enver Hoxha's mistakes was fighting against the church, with influence from Mao, which eventually backlashed against him.

Exactly what backlashed again whom?

Quote:
I've only heard that from Journeyman Pictures, who didn't offer any evidence to back up their accusations. It seems to be more Russophobia than anything else.

Well i've heard it from communists who live there and the "connections" between state security and such extremists is really no secret.
Nothing to do with Russophobia.

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Unlike Russia, we completely crackdown on political opposition groups, while Russia allows them to exist to a greater extent.

That's just not true.

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The KKK, in some areas, are still untouchable. Does this mean the USA supports the KKK?

KKK, for start, does not go around killing foreign students and if they did they would be dealt with by the FBI and so on.

Quote:
The Russia law was adopted from the Soviet law.

Russian law is a joke.
Soviet cogitations: 236
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Jul 2012, 03:04
Ideology: None
Pioneer
Post 21 Aug 2012, 05:57
Loz wrote:
Exactly what backlashed again whom?.

Oppression against the Church, after Albania's version of the Cultural Revolution(which Hoxha later regretted, and his wife said they only adopted the policy because of influence from China), simply lead to the religious faction of Albania to do away with Socialism with no regard. In religious states, we are now regarded as those who want to 'destroy religion.' Do you think such antagonization will be beneficial to us?

Quote:
That's just not true.

What do you mean that's not true? You've stated that the Russian state works with neo-Nazis, and now you're contradicting your original point.
Loz
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User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 11879
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
Philosophized
Post 21 Aug 2012, 07:05
Quote:
Oppression against the Church, after Albania's version of the Cultural Revolution(which Hoxha later regretted, and his wife said they only adopted the policy because of influence from China), simply lead to the religious faction of Albania to do away with Socialism with no regard. In religious states, we are now regarded as those who want to 'destroy religion.' Do you think such antagonization will be beneficial to us?

I wasn't aware of this, please post the original quotes, thanks.
But how exactly did it "backlash"? Aren't most Albanians atheists even today?

Quote:
What do you mean that's not true? You've stated that the Russian state works with neo-Nazis, and now you're contradicting your original point.

Such things happen, yes, but neo-Nazis aren't the first thing that comes to mind when we speak of Russian "opposition groups".

Anyway it's simply false that in America the state completely cracks down on the opposition. Repressions and oppressiveness against the "opposition" in general is much stronger in Russia.
Soviet cogitations: 10005
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
Ideology: Trotskyism
Philosophized
Post 21 Aug 2012, 19:13
The only positive thing about Russia is Putin's personal awesomeness. To like it because it used to be the most progressive place on earth a long time ago is to completely disregard reality.
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
Soviet cogitations: 236
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Jul 2012, 03:04
Ideology: None
Pioneer
Post 22 Aug 2012, 20:11
Loz wrote:
I wasn't aware of this, please post the original quotes, thanks.
But how exactly did it "backlash"? Aren't most Albanians atheists even today?

I think she said it when she met with Mother Teresa, although I had trouble finding the quote again. Religion was repressed during Albania's version of the Cultural Revolution, which began in '67.

It backlashed with Ramiz Alia, who was about as Revisionist as anyone in history. Although it is especially ironic in Albania, a country which modeled itself on anti-revisionism. Alia, probably out of spite, even announced he was a Muslim, although he called himself an Atheist for years.

I believe most Albanians are Muslim today, although Atheism is quite common.

Quote:
Anyway it's simply false that in America the state completely cracks down on the opposition. Repressions and oppressiveness against the "opposition" in general is much stronger in Russia.


Our country is quite oppressive when you get down to it. We've cracked down on all non-liberal elements, or we've alienated them from having a platform.

I'll be surprised if there's a country out there that's as repressive as the USA.
Soviet cogitations: 10005
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
Ideology: Trotskyism
Philosophized
Post 23 Aug 2012, 16:18
Quote:
I'll be surprised if there's a country out there that's as repressive as the USA.


Did you actually, really, just say that in a thread about the DPRK?
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
Soviet cogitations: 2051
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 24 Jun 2011, 08:37
Party Bureaucrat
Post 23 Aug 2012, 16:43
You can probably benefit from a trip to the Congo or or of the "el presidente" military republics that still exist here and there.
Soviet America is Free America!

Under communism, there is no freedom; you are not free to live in poverty, be homeless, to be without an education, to starve, or to be without a job
Soviet cogitations: 236
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Jul 2012, 03:04
Ideology: None
Pioneer
Post 24 Aug 2012, 07:21
Most of those countries can't afford security like what the USA has. We're a police state, no doubt about it, but I'd think North Korea only deploys large security force in large cities, while they keep the bulk of their security near the border with ROK.
Soviet cogitations: 10005
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
Ideology: Trotskyism
Philosophized
Post 24 Aug 2012, 15:56
Every imperialist state is a police state. And seriously, I feel like Germany (where I live) is much more repressive than the US in most things, such as

- gun laws
- free speech
- freedom of residence.

The only thing that's worse in the US than it is here is drug laws. I don't think you know what a nanny state is like.
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 4465
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Mar 2010, 01:20
Ideology: None
Forum Commissar
Post 25 Aug 2012, 03:21
That the US is "relatively free" in relation to gun laws and free speech is probably mainly a consequence of historical accidents.
What do you mean by the "freedom of residence" comment? I don't follow.

Mabool wrote:
Every imperialist state is a police state.
What's an example of a state that you don't regard as a "police state"?
Soviet cogitations: 10005
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
Ideology: Trotskyism
Philosophized
Post 25 Aug 2012, 05:44
One that doesn't spy on its people with an insane amount of sophisticated technology?

But granted, all states are police states if we're being honest.. It's a stupid category, really.
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
[+-]
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 1782
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Oct 2009, 20:08
Resident Artist
Post 25 Aug 2012, 14:09
The Kims are no better than the Romanovs and are holding their country back. I would personally like to see Kim Jong-Un reform along Chinese lines so that it becomes a credible alternative to South Korea.
Soviet cogitations: 33
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 03 Sep 2012, 18:47
Ideology: None
Unperson
Post 03 Sep 2012, 18:55
I think that the Kim family is in fact a monarchy!
A republic with a dinasty in control ,something never to be seen in the whole world.This family did for so long so much harm to the north korean people that they should be displayed in a museum of modern wonders or most evil men in history along with other dictators.From within the NK people canot revolt only an outside influence or power can overtrow this draconic regime.
former johnjohn2007uk
Regards to you all readers
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 14444
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Sep 2006, 22:05
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 04 Sep 2012, 22:55
Or rather maybe the Korean people don't want to overthrow their government.
Image
Soviet cogitations: 33
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 03 Sep 2012, 18:47
Ideology: None
Unperson
Post 12 Sep 2012, 21:36
Don't you think that participation of the population in political decisions is a measure that can be applied to countries, or do you consider this entirely irrelevant? I would refuse to call governments "totalitarian" or "dictatorships" for the reason that these are concepts of bourgeois ideology (the word "dictatorship" takes on an entirely different meaning if you're a Marxist after all), but I think that it's perfectly possible to distinguish highly authoritarian states from more democratic ones.

Quote:
How about some evidence from a source that isn't controlled by capital?


You don't need bourgeois sources to recognize that the entirety of North Korean politics happens "thanks to the peerless leadership of" whoever is currently in power in North Korea. They say so themselves.[/quote]

What about the people who dont make politics and dont like it?? no one should represent them?
Politics in North Korea is the most important thing and thats why the economy is so messed up.No one comrade mabool intervened in your internal affairs for 60 years.Why is so bad there??
Politics and dear leaders should not be every day life for you.
Soviet cogitations: 33
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 03 Sep 2012, 18:47
Ideology: None
Unperson
Post 14 Sep 2012, 10:14
indeed there are elections in DPRK using green or red buletins or tickets.everibody know what you vote.fair no?if you vote against you might get shot or sent to gulag. I think that the kim dinasty must end asap in any way ,without bloodshed.
Soviet cogitations: 25
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 20 Sep 2012, 07:19
Pioneer
Post 25 Sep 2012, 12:43
churches have their meaning...good or bad or whatever u call them they teach nowadays to be a good man.to do good things.etc.Burning churches isnt a solution.religion existed since the man appear on this earth and will exist also as long as people will live the planet.
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User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 221
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 04 Feb 2013, 06:55
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Pioneer
Post 05 Feb 2013, 02:30
The only thing I like about Kim Il Sung was that he was a powerful strategist in Korea against the Japanese Imperialist powers. But I feel like he went downhill when he took power. Its like power got to his head.
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