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Albania's Accomplishments

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Soviet cogitations: 987
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 08 Aug 2011, 22:59
Ideology: Other Leftist
Komsomol
Post 31 Aug 2011, 16:02
Dear Comrades,

I realized in a different thread that as a titoist (read: revisionist) I was completely blinded and thus did not know anything about the great achievements of the glorious Albania.

I ask everyone to post five... errr... no, three should do, too, ... three achievements of Albania during it's period of socialism. I don't think "having a seashore" or "holding the capitalists away from Albania" or "having a light-bulb factory in Vlora" are really achievements I was looking for.

Thank you.
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Soviet cogitations: 3553
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 17 Jul 2006, 00:10
Ideology: Other Leftist
Forum Commissar
Post 31 Aug 2011, 17:12
sure, why not.

- the number of honour killings was reduced.
- i think literacy improved.
- there was "some" industrialization (i heard that in bulgaria they have a term "albanian engineering" with which they describe industrial products which dont work or barely function).
- ice cream making industry was expanded.
- excess of weapons enabled creation of terrorist groups in every neighboring country they have.
- smuggling of bikes was the first albanian small business initiative.

seriously, i doubt they actually did anything besides those two things mentioned above. people were extremely poor and "industrialization" brought no real results whatsoever. their pig-headed isolation didnt help them either because they pretty much lost every possible foreign market.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 29 Dec 2010, 08:09
Pioneer
Post 31 Aug 2011, 19:39
Quote:
•Hoxha defeated Mussolini’s fascist forces and lead the Albanian liberation movement to victory against occupation and colonialism
•Socialism and the dictatorship of the proletariat were established under Hoxha’s rule. His economic revolution was even more advanced than the USSRs, with even more working class control over production centers.
•Life expectancy under Hoxha went from 32 in the tribal days to 76 in Socialism/Communism
•Illiteracy before Hoxha was 90-95% in 1939, which by 1950 went down to 30% and by 1985 was equal to that of the United States.
•Women’s rights were increased a thousand fold under Hoxha.
•Tribal warfare and honor killings were ended.
•Hoxha consistently fought against imperialism and particularly U.S. imperialism in Vietnam, Cuba, Indonesia, Africa, Latin America and everywhere else.
•Hoxha was the first socialist leader to recognize Khrushchev’s revisionism and was the first to publically speak out against it.
•Hoxha fought against the Greek monarcho-fascists.
•Hoxha defeated coup attempts by the US, Tito, the Soviets and the Greeks


Quote:
Albania

From: “DDR-Roter Morgen”, illegal newspaper of the KPD/ML, July 1978

What do you know about Albania? It is not much what you can learn about it from the school books or newspapers.

“A country where a man is afraid to criticise another one is no socialist country.” — Enver Hoxha

In Albania the party and the working class are aware that it is not enough that the socialist relations of production was established but that a constant struggle has to be lead to keep them and to perfect them. In order to prevent that the Socialist People’s Republic of Albania will suffer the same fate as the Soviet Union, the GDR and the other former socialist countries where capitalism was restored, the Albanian communists and the Albanian people took measures to strengthen the dictatorship of the proletariat according to the teachings of Lenin and Stalin.

The PLA (Party of Labour of Albania) considers it very important to create a proper relationship between the leading cadres and the broad masses of the working people in town and country. They lead a consistent struggle against the cadres separating themselves from the working class and placing themselves above it, they lead a consistent struggle against bureaucratic, technocratic, liberal, sectarian and other bourgeois tendencies showing up in the work of the functionaries.

In order to prevent that decadent elements and privileged strata develop, the PLA has always followed the line of steadily decreasing the differences in the level of income and the way of living between the cadres and the workers and collective peasants. No significant differences in wages are allowed, while at the same time petty-bourgeois tendencies of egalitarianism are fought.

“The cadres have to have oil-stained hands and clayey shoes in order to learn the concerns, the needs and the work of the people not only from above but also from below, in order to make bureaucracy, pride and arrogance, the disease of commanding and of favouritism disappear; because all of these diseases are more likely to emerge within those who hold positions of power and thus think that they alone could manage everything and without them nothing could go on.” (Enver Hoxha)

In Albania the worker has the say

To strengthen socialism and the dictatorship of the proletariat the Albanian working class has created extensive ways to exercise workers’ control and to prevent the rise and growth of bureaucracy, cliques and nepotism. This is of great importance in the education of the people, the education to the “new human” with a socialist consciousness. Therefore much weight is given to criticism and self-criticism. Criticism and self-criticism are seen as driving force in Albania which contributes to the development of society.

To prevent that the criticised feels offended by the criticism and looks for an opportunity to take revenge or to prevent that somebody misuses criticism just for his own selfish and ambitious interests, all criticism is discussed in the workers’ collective. And further important features like the “Flete Rrufe” (flash letters) haven been created. The Flete Rrufe are openly posted criticism or proposals, which everybody can hang out and in which everybody, regardless of his position, can be criticised for his behaviour. This way e.g. the following criticism of a department chief in Fieri, written by one of his subordinates, was posted:

“The party teaches us to be not vengeful, not arrogant towards subordinates but to let us be guided by the ideology of Marxism-Leninism. We know that you, comrade, know very well about all of this in theory. But we are right if we call you a dogmatist because this is illustrated by the fact that you have taken revenge on us. You tried to look down on the work of the others, to exert pressure and command us. You have been criticised for you mistakes but you have not changed. We ask you: Does the proletarian discipline apply to everybody or just to some? We request that the District Committee shall make an analysis about your mistakes after you have given the answer.”

The criticised is obligated to provide a written reply to this criticism, which he also has to post openly. It is of course important that the criticism doesn’t stay formal but that measures are taken to correct the mistakes. The primary purpose of criticism is, of course, education but it also happened in similar cases that even directors were sent back to work at the machines so that they could correct their arrogant attitude.

Did you already know…

… that the last case of measles in the People’s Republic of Albania was in 1971?This is because general vaccination against measles was introduced in Albania as the only country in Europe. By the way, medical care is completely free in Albania. For children up to one year the socialist state also provides all medicaments for free.

… that workers in certain professions – e.g. miners – receive pension already with 50 years in Albania? Furthermore they get an additional annual vacation of 36 days.

… that women who go back to work after their maternity leave can bring their children to a crib at their business and additionally get at least half an hour break every three hours so that they can take care of their child? This break is seen as working time and is fully paid. By the way, all women who gave birth to six or more children receive their pension already at the age of 50 years, regardless of the jobs they had.

… that price increases are completely unknown in Albania? While prices rise continuously here, the prices for consumer goods have been decreased 14 times in Albania since 1950. By the way, a ticket for the opera or ballet costs 3 Lek in Albania – that is 75 Pfennigs [60 Pfennigs were around 30 ¢ at the time when the Euro was introduced in Germany].

… that nobody in Albania had to pay taxes or any other dues since 1967?

… that on 25th October 1970 the last house in Albania was connected to the national grid? The peasants even at the most remote farms do not have to pay a cent for their connection to the national grid.

… that every third Albanian goes to school, respectively educates himself further? In 1946 four of fife Albanian were still illiterates.

… that Albania is the country with the lowest wage differentials in the world?Thus, for example, the director of a metal-working factory can earn at most 50% than a qualified worker. The director of a mine can earn at most 20% more than a qualified worker, a minister 30-50% (payroll taxes do not exist).

… that everybody in Albania who is not working in production has to physically work at least one month a year? This applies for administrative officials to professors to the top-level state functionaries.

Work of the cadres in production

Everywhere in Albania, in cities and villages, one could see leading cadres of all ranks, working people of the administration and intellectuals who worked directly in production, shoulder to shoulder with the workers and peasants. It was a principle of the socialist life in Albania that all cadres of the administration, the party, state- and economic apparatus, of the mass organisations, the army and the cadres of state companies, of agricultural collectives and the members of the intelligentsia, with the exception of old persons and those who cannot regularly take part in production because of their health or physical disablement. Productive work was also an integral part of school, next to lessons and the physical and military education.

The direct participation of leading cadres and intellectuals at work in production was a principal aspect of social life and of vital importance for the cause of socialism. It is not sufficient to establish the socialist ownership of the means of production. It is also necessarily needed to establish correct relationships between the leading cadres and the broad masses of the working people in town and country. On the one hand this requires the cadres to guide, lead and control but on the other hand they have to see themselves as servants of the people.

They have to be connected closely with the masses and merge with them, learn from the, give account to the masses and to be under the actual, effective and constant control of the masses. This way centralism is correctly linked with socialist democracy. After the victory of socialism, too, the danger exists that the leading cadres become bureaucrats, that they isolate themselves from the masses or even oppose them, that they transform from servants of the people to rulers of the people, that they degenerate, that a new anti-socialist caste or class arises; this would lead to the liquidation of the dictatorship of the proletariat and to the restoration of capitalism. The existence of such a danger was fully proven by historical experience. To ignore this danger is momentous and fatal for the fate of socialism. But it is no inevitable doom and can be avoided if effective countermeasures are taken.

Among the very important measures which the Party of Labour of Albania has taken is the cadre rotation, that is the relocation of cadres from leading positions to the basis and from administration to production and the other way around, the admission of more working people, especially from the ranks of workers in production, into governing bodies and furthermore the reduction of the higher
wages and the creation of a correct relationship between the quality of living of the cadres and the masses as well as the increased Marxist-Leninist ideological and political education of the cadres and the struggle against technocratic aspects, etc.

The participation of the leading cadres and the intelligentsia at work in production was a major principal problem as well as strengthening the moral and political unity of the people in the struggle for the cause of building socialism and preventing the separation of theory and practice – as Lenin emphasised, one of the worst ills inherited from the old capitalist society. It was one of the most concrete and most effective ways to decrease the significant differences between physical and intellectual work.

The relationship between low and high wages

The continuous revolutionary efforts for social equality, which began with the elimination of private property of the means of production and the liquidation of the exploiting classes in Albania, developed further during the process of socialist construction by the decrease of the differences in the quality of life of the working class, the collective peasants and the other working people.

Comrade Enver Hoxha said: “Our party fights for and will always fight for the constant improvement of the life of the people, and this means for all people. Our party is guided by the correct principle that there must not be egalitarianism in the wages but also no favouritism, and this means for nobody. Every single wage has to equal the amount and quality of work done and the gap between the wages of the working people has to be reduced further and further.”

The PLA took care of establishing a relationship as correct as possible between the wages of the cadres and the workers and collective peasants, a relationship which did not allow any significant differences in wages. At the same time the PLA fought against tendencies of petty-bourgeois egalitarianism in wages which is alien and harmful to socialism, too. At the beginning of the 80s the relationship between the average wage of a worker and the salary of a plant manager in the corresponding branch was 1:1.7, the relationship between the average wage of a worker and the salary of a department head in the ministry around 1:2, the relationship between the lowest and the highest wages of the workers within the specific branch around 1:1.5-1.65, etc. The relationship between wages is defined by law.

This is a specific and unique application of the Marxist-Leninist teaching, a great reality of proletarian justice in socialist Albania where the cadres do not exploit their position as a privilege but are connected with the masses. The reduction of the higher wages and the measures to eliminate the excessive additions to the basic pay of those creating literature and arts, of the workers in the education field and science and to adjust the material stimuli better with the moral is an expression of the class-based treatment of the problem of the wages. This way the relationship between the masses and the cadres and the relationship between the cadres themselves were supposed to be revolutionised from the material point of view, too, because this is an essential requirement to save the people, especially the cadres, from harmful influences. Experience shows that bureaucracy is bred by high wages. The bureaucratic elements are always tending to increase the gap between the wages by different way and by all kind of methods.

Country without taxes and dues

In developing and implementing the tax policy towards the people, the Party of Labour of Albania was always aware that taxes are a temporary historical category. Therefore it prepared, step by step and with the utmost care, all the necessary conditions to abolish it. On November 8, 1969 very important measures were taken to eliminate the system of taxes and other direct charges for the population completely. This is because the area of the socialist relations of production had expanded and the productive forces of the country developed rapidly. The share of taxes and fees of the population in the income of the state budget was 92 percent in the fiscal year 1945-1946 (the first year of liberation), in 1950 it had fallen to 12.6 percent and to 2.7 percent in 1960; 1969 it was only
0.1 percent.

The process in which the taxes and fees have been abolished for the people did not take place at once and not in an administrative process. The taxes were abolished gradually, while simultaneously the socialist sector of the economy developed and the class structure of the country changed.

Article 31 of the Constitution states: “The citizens pay no taxes and fees.”

Rely yourself on your own strength

The Albanian economy was based entirely on its own strength, based on its own material and financial resources without assistance and loans from abroad. The decisive factor of the revolutionary changes and achievements in socialist construction, in stability and continuous development of the economy, was the selfless work of the Albanian people itself. The principle to rely on one’s own strength arises from the teachings of Marxism-Leninism, according to which the internal factor is crucial and the environmental factor remains a complementary, an auxiliary factor.

Already at the time of the anti-fascist National Liberation War the Albanian people, relied entirely on its own forces, won through its armed struggle for freedom and independence of the country. Similarly, the construction of socialist society, the development of economy and culture as well as the defence of the achievements will never be due to help from the outside. The experience of Albania showed that every nation, large or small, is able to manage the economy and to develop it in an independent manner, if it bases itself on its own strength. Relying on its own strength, important steps forward were taken in the SPR Albania to expose the natural resources and the water resources and exploit them rationally. The producing and manufacturing heavy industry developed, and the industrial reserves of natural resources increased steadily. The development of the economy was based on the raw material and energy resources of the country, on the producing and processing of oil and natural gas, coal and the production of electric energy. Albania had no debts and did not base its own plans for development on foreign credits.

To rely on one’s own strength is not a temporary and cyclical policy. It is not a policy of autarchy and isolation in the national scarf. All nations, big or small, make their own contribution to the question of the revolution and building socialism. The principle of relying on your own strength excludes the internationalist aid of the world proletariat and the socialist countries by no means, but on the contrary requires them.

The retirement age

The Albanian socialist legislation does not define an uniform limit on the retirement age or on the length of service. The retirement age and years of service necessary for obtaining a pension were determined primarily by the difficulty of the work and by the gender. The more difficult the work is, the lower is the retirement age. According to this principle the workers were divided in three categories regarding the retirement age: The first category includes the working people who do work that is considered very hard. In this case, the pension age for women was set at 45 years and for men at 50 years. The required period of service for women was 15 years and for men 20 years.

This category includes the workers who were working underground, some occupations in the metallurgy and chemical industry, the working people who work at the blast furnaces, on metal melting and casting, etc., the workers involved in the production of ammonium nitrate and superphosphate. Similarly, the working people who are exposed to radioactive substances and ionising irradiation belong to this category, further some occupations in the civilian air traffic as well as in education and in the field of culture, like dancers, acrobats, circus performers, musicians who play wind instruments, members of dance companies, etc. In the health sector the radiologist, the staff of the cobalt therapy departments and others are included.

The second category includes the workers who carry out less heavy work than that of the first category. For them the retirement age is set to 50 years for women and to 55 years for men, the length of service to 20 or 25 years. The right to a pension under this category belongs to the workers in some occupations in oil and gas industry, a number of other occupations in metallurgy and chemical industries, who do a less hard work than those of the first category. Similarly, some occupations among this category were geology, the textile industry, leather industry, the tobacco industry, some jobs in the commercial fleet; furthermore the fishing workers, teachers, surgeons, psychiatrists and others are covered in this group.

The third category includes all workers who carry out other work that does not belong to the first or second category. The retirement age in this case is 55 years for women and 60 for men, the length of service 20 or 25 years.

In order to receive a pension at the age of 45, 50 or 55 years, it is sufficient when the worker was active for three quarters of his service in one of these occupations. For the workers in the mines, it is sufficient if they had spent half their working lives underground in order to obtain the pension of the first category. For example, if a miner of a chrome mine who has worked 10 years underground, changed at his own request to a work in another place, say as a mechanic in a metal processing plant, where he will work another 10 years, then he was entitled to a full retirement pension at the age of 50 years because he had spent half his service underground. For some special categories of workers pensions are provided at even more favourable conditions.

These, for example, include mothers with many children, the blind, deaf and persons with congenital physical damage. The former – the mothers with many children – may retire after 15 years of service and at the age of 50 years, if they gave birth to six or more children and raised them till the age of eight years. Blind, etc., receive pension after 15 (men) or 10 (women) years of service if they are 50 or 40 years of age.

There is also a pension “for special merits.” This pension goes to persons who made an enormous contribution in the great anti-fascist National Liberation War, or who decorated themselves in the field of science, technology, culture, in public or social branches of the economy. In the period of socialist construction not only the workers from the city, but also those of the village received the benefits of the pension. The pension was for the working people of town and country alike, it was 70 percent of their salary. For the calculation of this pension the worker had the right to pick the highest wage he received for three consecutive years in the last 10 years.
Last edited by melsh_jump on 31 Aug 2011, 20:15, edited 1 time in total.
Soviet cogitations: 34
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 15 Aug 2011, 08:16
Pioneer
Post 31 Aug 2011, 20:02
A good friend of mine is Albanian hes told me stories of his parents living in Albania. The living standards were quite high, Housing was good and things were actually built unlike now, but economic growth was hard eicpecially around the end years when diplomatic relations were horrible with the United States, Soviet Union, Yugoslavia AND China, the economy wasent great
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Soviet cogitations: 987
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 08 Aug 2011, 22:59
Ideology: Other Leftist
Komsomol
Post 31 Aug 2011, 22:52
melsh_jump wrote:
•Hoxha defeated Mussolini’s fascist forces and lead the Albanian liberation movement to victory against occupation and colonialism

Comrade, I specifically asked for Albania's accomplishments during the period of socialism, which was 1946 - 1990. Unless Albanians balisti were fighting the fascists well into three years after their defeat, this is clearly exempt. Or, to put it differently - everyone who fought against nazism and fascism is to be commended. So, there's not special achievement from Albanians on that one, sorry.

melsh_jump wrote:
•Socialism and the dictatorship of the proletariat were established under Hoxha’s rule. His economic revolution was even more advanced than the USSRs, with even more working class control over production centers.

Why has this advanced form of economic revolution brought such terrible results for Albania to be the ABSOLUTELY LAST in development in Europe? Please, name at least ONE reason which cannot be taken as an excuse.

melsh_jump wrote:
•Life expectancy under Hoxha went from 32 in the tribal days to 76 in Socialism/Communism

Are you saying that life expectancy in Albania in 1940s (just prior the introduction of socialism) was 32 or do you compare life expectancy from hundreds of years ago? In other words, define the tribal days (as we all know, before the WW2 there was Kingdom of Albania and not "Tribal Period of Albania"). If your "tribal days" turn out to be "not exactly in the early 1940s", then I can give you even better examples of tremendous growth throughout the world, even in a capitalist society



melsh_jump wrote:
•Illiteracy before Hoxha was 90-95% in 1939, which by 1950 went down to 30% and by 1985 was equal to that of the United States.

*ERRRR* Completely wrong, comrade. In 1986 (CIA FACTBOOK data) United States' literacy was at 99% whereas Yugoslav's literacy was at 90,5%, and Albania boasted 70%. Fact, not fiction, comrade. So, having 70% literacy rate is not such a huge achievement at all


melsh_jump wrote:
•Women’s rights were increased a thousand fold under Hoxha.

... much like women's rights were increased everywhere else in Europe. I admit this can be a huge achievement credited to Hoxha if he was the one making this possible in all other European countries at the time


melsh_jump wrote:
•Tribal warfare and honor killings were ended.

The laws of Leka Dugajin were pretty much still in effect during the entire socialist period.

melsh_jump wrote:
•Hoxha consistently fought against imperialism and particularly U.S. imperialism in Vietnam, Cuba, Indonesia, Africa, Latin America and everywhere else.

With words and deeds or just lashing out on party meetings? What was the effect of Hoxha's rants? Complete withdrawal of US forces from Vietnam in early 1970s? Do you honestly think Enver f***ing Hoxha had such an effect on Nixon and other US administrations? Wow!

melsh_jump wrote:
•Hoxha was the first socialist leader to recognize Khrushchev’s revisionism and was the first to publically speak out against it.

That is an accomplishment?
How fast was he in recognising Yugoslav revisionism 10 years earlier? He shut the f#%$ up until his boss Stalin let him speak.

melsh_jump wrote:
•Hoxha fought against the Greek monarcho-fascists.

Comrade, was that after 1946 or before? If after, then I'm totally perplexed as Hoxha was a loyal stalinist and we all know Stalin did not want Tito (or anyone else for that matter) to support Greek communists in their fights against the royalists.

melsh_jump wrote:
•Hoxha defeated coup attempts by the US, Tito, the Soviets and the Greeks

Muahahhaah, I'm sorry but this is by far the weakest (if not the lamest) claim of all. Who the f$#% is Albania to be so strategically important that all major powers plus some local countries wanted to subdue? Are you sure you haven't forgotten the Chinese who probably wanted to the change the regime as well? The only important thing was not even on their territory, and that is the door to the Adriatic sea - there's an entrance between Albania and Italy which the Soviets had an appetite for to control.


My overall comment: please, check your sources before you cut-and-paste "facts" and before you decide to believe them.
Loz
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Soviet cogitations: 11879
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
Philosophized
Post 02 Sep 2011, 04:14
Edvard,here is a three part video on Socialist Albania and its accomplishments made in 1986.
P1:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_nlWEIWOJA&feature=related
P2:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbSiE09Aaw4&feature=related
P3:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhLoH_Ady9o&feature=related

Quote:
Comrade, I specifically asked for Albania's accomplishments during the period of socialism, which was 1946 - 1990. Unless Albanians balisti were fighting the fascists well into three years after their defeat, this is clearly exempt. Or, to put it differently - everyone who fought against nazism and fascism is to be commended. So, there's not special achievement from Albanians on that one, sorry.

Of course,you have a point.
But would there be any autochtonous Albanian socialism without Albanian Partisans with Enver as their leader?
Would there be any Yugoslav Socialism without our NOB?
These weren't accomplishments made in the period of socialism but we must not omit them from the overall context.IMO at least.

Quote:
Why has this advanced form of economic revolution brought such terrible results for Albania to be the ABSOLUTELY LAST in development in Europe? Please, name at least ONE reason which cannot be taken as an excuse.

Albania was probably the least developed country in Europe,but the gap between Albania and Western Europe was much smaller in 1980 than in,let's say,1930.
Enver Hoxha brought Albania out of the Middle Ages into 20th Century.
BTW,Albania was probably more developed than AP Kosovo.

Quote:
Are you saying that life expectancy in Albania in 1940s (just prior the introduction of socialism) was 32 or do you compare life expectancy from hundreds of years ago? In other words, define the tribal days (as we all know, before the WW2 there was Kingdom of Albania and not "Tribal Period of Albania"). If your "tribal days" turn out to be "not exactly in the early 1940s", then I can give you even better examples of tremendous growth throughout the world, even in a capitalist society

I'd say that the tribal days lasted until 1946.Blood-feuds were still widespread by that time,and they were,IMO, one of the more important (because the tradition of blood revenge had a great effect on people's lives in general) characteristics of this Albanian tribal society.

Quote:
So, having 70% literacy rate is not such a huge achievement at all

Can you provide us with an exact link?
I've read about 1980's Albania having 85-"nearly 100" % literacy rates.

Quote:
I admit this can be a huge achievement credited to Hoxha if he was the one making this possible in all other European countries at the time

Women in Switzerland were allowed to vote for the first time in 1971.


Quote:
The laws of Leka Dugajin were pretty much still in effect during the entire socialist period.

Do you have a source for this?

Quote:
With words and deeds or just lashing out on party meetings? What was the effect of Hoxha's rants? Complete withdrawal of US forces from Vietnam in early 1970s? Do you honestly think Enver f***ing Hoxha had such an effect on Nixon and other US administrations? Wow!

Well,this is unfair.Not even Yugoslavia or the USSR itself managed to force the US forces to withdraw from Vietnam.

Quote:
How fast was he in recognising Yugoslav revisionism 10 years earlier?

It was not all too clear back then,but Albania started complaining about the "joint companies" (mešovita društva) -essentially a tool for the exploitation of Albania already in 1946-1947,IIRC.

Quote:
Muahahhaah, I'm sorry but this is by far the weakest (if not the lamest) claim of all. Who the f$#% is Albania to be so strategically important that all major powers plus some local countries wanted to subdue? Are you sure you haven't forgotten the Chinese who probably wanted to the change the regime as well? The only important thing was not even on their territory, and that is the door to the Adriatic sea - there's an entrance between Albania and Italy which the Soviets had an appetite for to control.

Seems that you have answered your own question.

But then,how strategically important was Kosovo for the SFRY? I'd say-not very important.It was pretty much the "appendix" (slepo crevo) of Yugoslavia.And yet it was the issue of Kosmet that brought S.Milošević to power (Niko ne sme da vas bije).

P.S. It i very important to remember that Enver Hoxha's Albania became the World's first (and i think the only) officially atheist state in the 60s.From tribalism and the Middle Ages to -an atheist state! Even today most Albanians are atheist.
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Soviet cogitations: 987
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 08 Aug 2011, 22:59
Ideology: Other Leftist
Komsomol
Post 02 Sep 2011, 19:23
Loz wrote:
Can you provide us with an exact link?
I've read about 1980's Albania having 85-"nearly 100" % literacy rates.

Comrade, http://www.theodora.com/wfb/ , you're free to dismiss it as Western propaganda of the time.
Also, if Slobo (Milošević) was winning consecutive "free elections" with 102% of all votes (late 80s, early 90s), one can imagine Albania's literacy rate to jump to 110% without any problems
Soviet cogitations: 684
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 01 Mar 2011, 14:10
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Komsomol
Post 13 Nov 2011, 18:50
The Yugoslavs did try to annex Albania. Just about any non-Yugoslav source will note this. In addition the Yugoslavs wanted to get rid of Hoxha even before the country was fully liberated. Hoxha didn't speak out against Yugoslav revisionism, but he still found ways to undermine the Yugoslav domination of Albania postwar via trade agreements with the USSR and Bulgaria, which the Yugoslavs demanded be annulled since, in their view, all such agreements could only be carried out with express Yugoslav approval. Serbo-Croatian was also taught in Albanian schools.

"The second Plenum of the Central Committee of the Albanian Communist Party was held in Berat [on November 23rd, 1944] and was marked by Yugoslav interference in Albanian internal affairs. The newly appointed Yugoslav representative, Colonel Velimir Stojnic, supported by his assistant, Nijaz Dizdarevic, was critical of Enver Hoxha's policies, particularly concerning the future of Kosovë and Dibër and his firm stand on the question of complete Albanian nationalist independence, free from Yugoslav control."
(Owen Pearson. Albania in Occupation and War: From Fascism to Communism, 1940-1945. New York: St Martins Press. 2005. p. 411.)

As for accomplishments, the life expectancy in 1938 was 38 years old. In the 1960's it rose to 62 and in the 1980's was around 75. Illiteracy (which was around 80-90%) was halved within the first seven years after liberation, and basically done away with by the 1980's whereas Ramadan Marmullaku (a Yugoslav functionary) noted that 30% of the Kosovar Albanian population was still illiterate in the 1970's. He also noted that blood feuds were much more prevalent in Kosova than in Albania during that same period.

Then, of course, there was industrialization, the construction of Albania's very first university in 1957, complete electrification in 1971 which led to the exporting of electricity to other countries, etc. Albania emerged in 1990 as Europe's poorest country because it was Europe's poorest country since its independence in 1912.

I have plenty of sources. Ask me anything.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 08 Aug 2011, 22:59
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Post 13 Nov 2011, 19:52
Ismail wrote:
As for accomplishments, the life expectancy in 1938 was 38 years old. In the 1960's it rose to 62 ....

Then, of course, there was industrialization, the construction of Albania's very first university in 1957, complete electrification in 1971 which led to the exporting of electricity to other countries, etc. Albania emerged in 1990 as Europe's poorest country because it was Europe's poorest country since its independence in 1912.


Comrade, I realize now that I have to admire Albania's accomplishments. I think I should start to wish I lived in Albania rather than in Yugoslavia
I also admire people's positivism towards the most backward and puppet regime of Europe during the Cold War.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 01 Mar 2011, 14:10
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Komsomol
Post 13 Nov 2011, 20:15
Sure is nice to be a national chauvinist, isn't it? Apparently having a bigger economy is all that matters, even though Yugoslavia's economy was attained via huge amounts of Yugoslav workers in the West and a gigantic debt that significantly contributed to the breakup of Yugoslavia itself.

Also Albania wasn't a "puppet regime" except under Yugoslavia. Its relations with the USSR post-Stalin were rocky and the USSR cut off all relations with Albania in 1961 after unsuccessfully attempting economic, diplomatic, and military blackmail (noted, among other books, in Harry Hamm's Albania: China's Beachhead In Europe) along with trying to get Hoxha removed as party leader.
Last edited by Ismail on 13 Nov 2011, 20:22, edited 1 time in total.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 08 Aug 2011, 22:59
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Post 13 Nov 2011, 20:22
Ismail wrote:
Sure is nice to be a national chauvinist, isn't it? Apparently having a bigger is all that matters,

What is national chauvinistic about my statement? I'm saying you presented facts that would belittle any other country

Ismail wrote:
even though Yugoslavia's economy was attained via huge amounts of Yugoslav workers in the West and a gigantic debt that significantly contributed to the breakup of Yugoslavia itself.

Albania could not break up due to its minute size, but that's not important. What counts is the fact that no large investments and many investors entered Albania after it finally decided to let foreigners in. Yugoslavia was open to investments throughout the entire period of Cold war. Of course, let me answer this statement on your behalf - that was plain wrong


Ismail wrote:
Also Albania wasn't a "puppet regime" except under Yugoslavia. Its relations with the USSR post-Stalin were rocky and the USSR cut off all relations with Albania in 1961.

I'm glad to hear you're saying ALbania lead a completely independent foreign policy on the international stage after the Sino-Soviet split. Therefore, any allegations of Albania siding with the Chinese is nothing but vicious Yugoslav propaganda and not A FACT
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 01 Mar 2011, 14:10
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Post 13 Nov 2011, 20:29
The advancement of Albania's economy, although relatively small by the standards of Western Europe, were great leaps for Albania itself. Every source on Albania notes this, from pro-Yugoslav sources such as Marmalluku to James S. O'Donnell's book A Coming of Age: Albania Under Enver Hoxha, along with a host of others.

Quote:
Albania could not break up due to its minute size, but that's not important.
Really? Tribalism was a huge problem in Albania until the advent of liberation. The Yugoslav monarchy in the 1920's tried without success to set up a Catholic puppet state in northern Albania among the Mirditë tribesmen via their leaders. Kosova, of course, was severed from Albania by the Great Powers in 1913 and the Greeks claimed southern Albanian territory until around 1973. Even though Albania's population is homogenous it was still fairly divided, but a desire for genuine unity on the part of the Albanians as a whole kept them together.

Even the smallest countries, including ones based around islands, can and have had separatist movements.

Quote:
Yugoslavia was open to investments throughout the entire period of Cold war. Of course, let me answer this statement on your behalf - that was plain wrong
Tito also claimed that America's "New Deal" was a great step towards socialism and allied with bourgeois nationalists like Nasser and Indira Gandhi who were anti-communists.

Here's a fun little fact: when Vietnam responded to the border provocations of "Democratic Kampuchea" under Pol Pot and toppled that regime, guess what side Yugoslavia went with. Was it the People's Republic of Kampuchea established under the aegis of the Vietnamese? Was it the US-backed "Democratic Kampuchea" government in exile? The Yugoslavs denounced the "aggression" of Vietnam and sided with Pol Pot.

"Like our Democratic Cambodia, Yugoslavia is a non-aligned country which has adhered to the position of preserving independence. Friendship between our two countries is therefore based on the same principle. We have always esteemed and respected Comrade President Tito and the friendly Yugoslav people. Comrade President Tito and the Yugoslav people have always supported and helped us. We have sympathy for them and wish to express our thanks to Comrade President Tito and the friendly Yugoslav people."
(Pol Pot, quoted in Journal of Contemporary Asia Vol. 8 No. 3, 1978. p. 413.)

Hoxha, by contrast, held this position: "When the first conflicts broke out on the Cambodian-Vietnamese border, the view of socialist Albania was, and the world is witness to this, that disagreements between the two neighbour countries should be resolved through talks and without the interference of the Chinese or Soviet social-imperialists. But this was not done. On the contrary, the Pol Pot group, incited by Beijing, brought out in Pnom Pen daily communiques in which they announced that thousands of Vietnamese were being killed by its army on Vietnamese territory." (Selected Works Vol. V, p. 725.)

Quote:
Therefore, any allegations of Albania siding with the Chinese is nothing but vicious Yugoslav propaganda and not A FACT
How was Albania a "puppet regime" of China? Was there a division of Chinese infantrymen stationed next to Hoxha's residence that no one except you knows about?
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Post 13 Nov 2011, 20:45
Ismail wrote:
Really? Tribalism was a huge problem in Albania until the advent of liberation.

Thank you for clearing that one
Need I say more?

Ismail wrote:
Here's a fun little fact: when Vietnam responded to the border provocations of "Democratic Kampuchea" under Pol Pot and toppled that regime, guess what side Yugoslavia went with. Was it the People's Republic of Kampuchea established under the aegis of the Vietnamese? Was it the US-backed "Democratic Kampuchea" government in exile? The Yugoslavs denounced the "aggression" of Vietnam and sided with Pol Pot.

Comrade, how is Yugoslav foreign policy ALbania's accomplishment (as this thread is titled)?


Ismail wrote:
Therefore, any allegations of Albania siding with the Chinese is nothing but vicious Yugoslav propaganda and not A FACT


Ismail wrote:
How was Albania a "puppet regime" of China? Was there a division of Chinese infantrymen stationed next to Hoxha's residence that no one except you knows about?

As I said - Albanians siding with the Chinese after the Sino-Soviet split must be vicious and aggressive and uncalled-for propaganda by Yugoslavs. History vindicated Albania who is now a major player in Europe, a model for new nations all around the world who have to learn of Albania's accomplishments in the 20th century to become at least as successful as is Albania today.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 01 Mar 2011, 14:10
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Komsomol
Post 13 Nov 2011, 20:50
Quote:
Comrade, how is Yugoslav foreign policy ALbania's accomplishment (as this thread is titled)?
Because you're praising Tito as if he's some sort of model for anything when it's fairly clear that his regime was capitalist and his foreign policy was not that of a revolutionary.

Quote:
As I said - Albanians siding with the Chinese after the Sino-Soviet split must be vicious and aggressive and uncalled-for propaganda by Yugoslavs.
Uh, no? Hoxha spoke and wrote at length on the relationship Albania and China had from 1960-1978. What's your point? How does Albania siding with the Chinese in their criticisms of the USSR make Albania a "puppet regime" of China?

Quote:
History vindicated Albania who is now a major player in Europe, a model for new nations all around the world who have to learn of Albania's accomplishments in the 20th century to become at least as successful as is Albania today.
History sure didn't vindicate Yugoslavia, which disintegrated into genocide and civil wars. Left-wingers certainly weren't so enthused with Yugoslavia in the 1980's when it was promoting large austerity measures à la the capitalist states of today in order to pay off their aforementioned gigantic debt and suppressing Albanian student and worker protests via tanks.

You evidently started the thread to poke fun at Albania and Enver Hoxha. You've provided no source for anything.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 08 Aug 2011, 22:59
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Komsomol
Post 13 Nov 2011, 21:26
Ismail wrote:
Because you're praising Tito as if he's some sort of model for anything when it's fairly clear that his regime was capitalist and his foreign policy was not that of a revolutionary.

I created this thread to discuss Albania. THere is one single reference to Tito in this thread by me and he was mentioned when stating a fact about the greek monarcho-fascists. Please, check the entire thread.
So, I'll repeat this for the last time "Comrade, how is Yugoslav foreign policy ALbania's accomplishment (as this thread is titled)?" Since you cannot stop mentioning Yugoslavia and Tito it is fairly obvious to me that Albanians were very immersed and influenced by its northern neighbour (which just proves my points from earlier:))

Ismail wrote:
How does Albania siding with the Chinese in their criticisms of the USSR make Albania a "puppet regime" of China?

Is the term "Sino-Albanian split" (google provides more than 2 MILLION HITS for the phrase http://bit.ly/rMozD7) a product of revisionist Yugoslavs, you will claim? Do read at least the first hit on google. You might consider defining the term "stooge" and "puppet", then we can talk about the same term/definition.

Ismail wrote:
History sure didn't vindicate Yugoslavia, which disintegrated into genocide and civil wars. Left-wingers certainly weren't so enthused with Yugoslavia in the 1980's when it was promoting large austerity measures à la the capitalist states of today in order to pay off their aforementioned gigantic debt and suppressing Albanian student and worker protests via tanks.

This is absolutely the last EDIT time i'm telling you this - this is a thread about Albania, not Yugoslavia. Would you want me to start comparing ALbania to regimes in Zambezi or Vaunatu? Would that make you feel superior?

Ismail wrote:
You evidently started the thread to poke fun at Albania and Enver Hoxha. You've provided no source for anything.

Read the EDIT thread from the beginning. I posted a page where you can find facts about all the countries of the world, not only Albania. Feel free to denounce it as Western (or no, better even - Yugoslav) propaganda. Whereas, you have provided shitloads of sources. All you did was "i can provide sources if you want"... *duuuuuh*
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 17 Jul 2006, 00:10
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Post 13 Nov 2011, 21:42
easy there, edo.
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Jugoslavija je bleda slika
premrzlega partizana
zato je njeno ljudstvo navajeno trpeti
zato je njeno ljudstvo pripravljeno umreti.

-Via Ofenziva

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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 01 Mar 2011, 14:10
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Komsomol
Post 13 Nov 2011, 21:49
EdvardK wrote:
Is the term "Sino-Albanian split" (google provides more than 2 MILLION HITS for the phrase http://bit.ly/rMozD7) a product of revisionist Yugoslavs, you will claim? Do read at least the first hit on google. You might consider defining the term "stooge" and "puppet", then we can talk about the same term/definition.
Again, what's your point? The Albanians broke with the Chinese due to their revisionist domestic and international policies. The Chinese tried to promote a coup from within the armed forces and failed.

Also there's no need to define either term. Neither are used much by communists.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 08 Aug 2011, 22:59
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Post 13 Nov 2011, 22:06
Ismail wrote:
[he Albanians broke with the Chinese due to their revisionist domestic and international policies. The Chinese tried to promote a coup from within the armed forces and failed.
Also there's no need to define either term. Neither are used much by communists.


Thank you for all the links to sources of your claims. I decided not to post on this thread until i have read thoroughly all the pages you kindly provided. Also, thank you for opening my eyes on the subject of glorious Albanian achievements which I had no knowledge of as I was clearly brainwashed by evil Yugoslav propaganda.

I somehow should've known that this thread will be a long one due to the qunatity of Albania's achievements, but I kindly ask the moderators to just close it now
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 17 Jul 2006, 00:10
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Post 13 Nov 2011, 22:19
the thread stays, there is no reason to close it for now.
Image


Jugoslavija je bleda slika
premrzlega partizana
zato je njeno ljudstvo navajeno trpeti
zato je njeno ljudstvo pripravljeno umreti.

-Via Ofenziva

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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 01 Mar 2011, 14:10
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Komsomol
Post 14 Nov 2011, 00:34
EdvardK wrote:
Thank you for all the links to sources of your claims. I decided not to post on this thread until i have read thoroughly all the pages you kindly provided.
I don't give links to internet pages attained via Googling, I gave sources from actual books that I've read. As we speak I have on my desk The History of Albania: A Brief Survey (1964) by Kristo Frashëri, and after that I will be reading Socialist Albania Since 1944: Domestic and Foreign Developments by Peter R. Prifti. In addition to this I also intend to finish reading Education for Communism: School and State in the People's Republic of Albania by John I. Thomas, of which I am about halfway through. I have 7 other books coming in the mail.

These, of course, are just three books which I am in the process of reading. I've read various others. How many books have you read about Albania? Any at all? Perhaps you ought to ask for recommendations.

But hey, just to be nice here's a link to the O'Donnell book which just happens to be online: http://espressostalinist.files.wordpres ... of-age.pdf

Now you can read thoroughly all the 224 pages which I have kindly provided.
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