Question on Romania

I didn't suggest he was a puppet.

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I don't think Western governments "love" anyone.

True, but "Most Favoured Nation Status" is the closest you'll ever get to being loved...

I agree with you arif_moin

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I didn't suggest he was a puppet.

What exactly are you accusing Ceausescu of then?

And before you cry "inhuman devil", Ceausescu went on with the 1966 decree because he knew that joint families are more condusive to the Socialist economic model than cosmopolitan ones. The family centric society puts alot less strain on state resources (ex: Free housing) than do cosmopolitan ones.

And on the international front, he was at odds with the USSR at times because his Western borders encompassed Hungary and Yugoslavia. He already had Eastern borders with Ukraine. So, naturally, as a leader, you would want to diversify your economy as much as possible. So, when Hungary got invaded, a non Soviet economic outlet got shut off from Ceausescu. Which is why he opposed the USSR when they moved into Hungary, for example. Since the West was the USSR's ideological foe, they supported Ceausescu.

I fail to see what deliberate wrong he engineered...

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What exactly are you accusing Ceausescu of then?

I thought it was clear in my post, that I was pointing out the fact that he was loved in the West and even called a "freedom fighter". It was more a jab on the west for their hypocrisy then an attack on Ceausescu, even though I don't like him.

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He was in many ways your archtypical evil dictator.

Who told you that?

Whats wrong with architypal evil dictators anyway? *moderately controversial, from a certain perspective*

Besides, name one politician that never did a single thing wrong, good old Blair has a boatload.

Yeah, but as narcisstic as Bliar may be, he is not a patch on Ceausescu. Statues, declarations, demonstrations all in his name. All, no doubt, directed from the top rather than any type of sponteanous show of support.

And to add to all this, Ceausescu was declared divine on his 62nd birthday.

Everyone deserves a birthday present =p

But in all seriousness, like with most leaders the very bad comes with the very good at the end the only people who remember are the common folk themselves.

I think the fact that the Romanian Revolution was the only one that turned bloody shows a few things about his rule - he was the most uncompromosing and totalitarian of the Eastern Bloc rulers, post-1953 at least.

It turned bloody because it was a conspiracy to topple the government through rogue elements of the secret police and military. Ceausescu did not order the military to fire upon demonstrators, this was ordered by conspiring generals, who would then later use it against Ceausescu.

From what I've read, Ceausescu called for it to be put down by any means possible, even if it meant another Tianamen. I think it was in the Romanian Revolution by Peter Siani Davies.

I am from Romania and I can perfectly remember Ceausescu's rule and the Revolution.

To get an idea of how life in the 80's under Ceausescu was, imagine the following: there was never enough food (the ration, for example, was 1 kg of sugar / month) , if you wanted to buy 1l of milk you had to wake up at 4 am to stand in line. Electricity and gas were cut on a daily basis, there were 2 hours of (bad) television. If we ate 1 or two bananas / year we were lucky! We always suspected the other of being an informant for the Securitate, we always lived in fear and suspicion. The one thing we had enough was propaganda, seeing Ceausescu on a daily basis on TV an in the newspapers.

So let me say this as clearly as possible: he was shot like a dog on Christmas Day and he f*cking deserved it.

And if someone asks me about the Revolution, if it was worth it, I would say: definitely yes.

I don't know much about Ceauşescu but I do know he gave his wife a huge personality cult and said she was a great scientist it's kind of funny

And she failed the 7th grade of elementary school,never to continue anymore.
Muahahaha.

From what I have been told from the kids Romanian auntie, although she isn't communist, she thinks Romania was a better place to live during Communist times, although she isn't Communist.

Hardly any unemployment, if someone was not working, the security services would lift themn and put them to work in a factory, everyone was housed so no one living on the streets. Now due to low wages people can't afford their own housing and overcrowding is a major problem. Befor she came to the UK, she was earning £200 a month and had to live with her mother and family in a small house just due to the fact she couldn't afford to do otherwise.

I think a lot of people are feeling the same in Romania and would welcome a return to the "old days".

I was an acquaintance with a young Romanian woman. Her basic opinion was that the state was not too bad at providing the staples of life, but she disliked the lack of "choices." Of course, her opinion may have been colored by the fact that her father was a party member and a policeman. She also told me an amusing story about how her Mother hung religious pictures on the wall much to the consternation of her Father.

From what I've read, Romania was an 'acceptable' socialist country until 1980, where the government decided to pay it's IMF (and World Bank?) debts at the expense of nearly starving the local population. This, added to the ever-vigilant state security produced too much discontent in the workers.

And yes, the 1989 events were necessary. The system was already fragged up. From my point of view, that was far from my idea of how a socialist country should be.

The 1989 events altough a hard hit to the socialist ideals, allowed us to rethink the XX century socialist models and approaches.

There *must* be a way to establish industrial armies, especially for agriculture ("Communist Manifesto" Measure . This necessarily means that population should be encouraged. I don't think women should be tested at work, that seems outside of the purview Communist Party, unless the Ministry of Social Security Division of Health and Welfare sets that sort of thing up. (Again, I am a male so it would be easier for me to say than a woman, who might find such an inspection intrusive and degrading.)

As I have stated in other posts, the Communist Party is the mirror of the masses' will. It does not "educate" or "elucidate" the masses, it merely follows the demands of the workers. That being said, as a Communist, I oppose abortion and contraceptives.

-Comr. Matthew Tobin