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DDR-Rise again!?

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Soviet cogitations: 8
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Oct 2005, 22:24
New Comrade (Say hi & be nice to me!)
Post 06 Nov 2005, 15:42
I live in denmark, just north of germany-and we hear the news from germany. And now when the election has been thier i read in a newspapier that :"Its only a matter of time before germany will split up in to again."

do you believe this?
Soviet cogitations: 7674
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Nov 2004, 02:08
Embalmed
Post 06 Nov 2005, 17:50
no
Soviet cogitations: 396
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 27 Jun 2004, 18:18
Komsomol
Post 06 Nov 2005, 18:03
I don't see it happen that fast, but it would be possible. Though there will be a huge European interverence.
Polls showed a majority of the East german people prefer to see the DDR back.
"Auferstanden aus Ruinen", sind das die Ruinen von WK. 2, oder die Ruinen von heute... nach der Annektierung?
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Soviet cogitations: 1911
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Jun 2003, 23:38
Old Bolshevik
Post 06 Nov 2005, 18:21
Yeah, there's a lot of Ostalgia in the DDR right now, many people voted PDS (Linkspartei) last elections (20 - 30%), but i do not see that party taking a leading role in a brake-away.

Its not likely at the moment, but who knows what kind of shit they're getting there in the future.
Soviet cogitations: 7674
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Nov 2004, 02:08
Embalmed
Post 06 Nov 2005, 18:21
why is that?
Soviet cogitations: 138
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 04 Mar 2003, 16:57
Pioneer
Post 08 Nov 2005, 10:40
From an outside perspective it wouldn't surprise me if some line of purely internal administrative difference emerges between the East and West, it doesn't have to be outright sovereignty, more of a dual-province difference in handling various civic affairs.

After that, who knows...
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Soviet cogitations: 1911
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Jun 2003, 23:38
Old Bolshevik
Post 08 Nov 2005, 10:55
Your newspaper said: Its only a matter of time before germany will split up in to again.

Its a matter of when the outside world acknowledges the fact that the West and East are still divided, not by state boundries, but by political consciousness and economic position in society.
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Soviet cogitations: 1019
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 16 Dec 2004, 21:30
Party Member
Post 08 Nov 2005, 11:28
How long it would take to newly splitted DDR to crumble? Few years?


They would have to build new wall because otherwise people would move to west.
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Soviet cogitations: 1911
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Jun 2003, 23:38
Old Bolshevik
Post 08 Nov 2005, 13:24
They already figured out moving to the west doesnt help shit
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Soviet cogitations: 829
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 28 Nov 2006, 20:19
Komsomol
Post 30 Nov 2006, 06:21
Die Linke are the breakaway Gorbachevist faction of the SED. They are worthless.

The fact there exists no worthwhile Socialist or Communist parties in Germany (and won't until capitalism is in crisis), and the fact that tearing away Germany from America would greatly damage world capitalism and provoke a crisis means the NPD is the only reasonable party for Communists to work with. Hell, NPD members have been known to wear Che t-shirts and many German petty-bourgeois nationalists support socialist states like Belarus and North Korea. They bitch more about the abuse of Rudolf Hess by bourgeois 'Anglo-Jewish' UK than anything else.

Marx wrote that Communists should always cooperate with any group that is behaving revolutionarily - that is threatening the ruling class. He wrote specifically that Communists in Germany work with the bourgeoisie when it acts in a revolutionary way, today it is the German petty-bourgeoisie that is acting revolutionary and there doesn't yet exist the material conditions (due to stability of US trade/investment) for a real Proletarian movement to evolve. Lenin recognized that the German Communists should work with the 'far right' against the Versailles Treaty. Stalin continued this line and although it didn't result in a working class revolution throughout Germany proper, it crippled Social Democracy and threw world capitalism into complete chaos. If Stalin had aided Social Democrats like the factionalists and capitalists wanted then Germany would have united with the other bourgeois powers against the USSR. Not only German Communists, but the USSR itself was next on the shitlist for German Social Democrats and their intl. bourgeois allies after the Monarchists and Nazis:

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Solidarity with the Janjaweed, Musa Hilal and Omar al-Bashir.
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[There is] a new channel by which treachery and espionage penetrate into the Communist Party. It is Zionism. - Klement Gottwald
Soviet cogitations: 721
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Nov 2006, 18:34
Unperson
Post 30 Nov 2006, 15:06
yore crazy
Quote:
there are know communist parties in germany


German communist party
Communist Party of germany
Marxist-leninist party
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Soviet cogitations: 382
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 16 Nov 2006, 00:02
Komsomol
Post 19 Dec 2006, 17:12
i dont think it will rise agen
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Soviet cogitations: 103
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 03 Dec 2006, 20:02
Pioneer
Post 31 Dec 2006, 01:27
It will rise again, but it will be a unified Socialist State.
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Soviet cogitations: 256
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 27 Jun 2006, 22:14
Komsomol
Post 31 Dec 2006, 12:00
Yes comrade you are absolute right, Germany will not split up geographically but there will be resistance, that has to be crushed, and then we can unite Germany to a Union of soviets. Communism will rise again and the lousy traitors that lead germany to suicide will be destroyed...then a free republic of soviets will rise upon the ashes of the old world and will make Europe free of capitalist opression, unite with russia and then when the last stronghold of capitalism is conquered, we will have a better world under the glorious leadership of the Communist party of the People.
nothing stays how it is
-Lenin-
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Soviet cogitations: 103
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 03 Dec 2006, 20:02
Pioneer
Post 31 Dec 2006, 16:58
I'm a geopolitician, so I think there should be a Eurasia.
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Soviet cogitations: 256
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 27 Jun 2006, 22:14
Komsomol
Post 31 Dec 2006, 23:05
yes of course. But the revolution has to start somewhere. And that is where I live. In Germany. Of course we will expand. Poland France and many mayn other countries will be free.
nothing stays how it is
-Lenin-
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Soviet cogitations: 829
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 28 Nov 2006, 20:19
Komsomol
Post 01 Jan 2007, 19:13
Quote:
unite with russia and then when the last stronghold of capitalism is conquered, we will have a better world under the glorious leadership of the Communist party of the People
.With German technology and Soviet resources, the capitalists will be steam-hammered into oblivion!
Quote:
I'm a geopolitician, so I think there should be a Eurasia.
You mean a politically coherent and socialist Eurasian identity - Eurasia already exists.
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Soviet cogitations: 2693
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 01 Mar 2006, 08:59
Party Bureaucrat
Post 01 Jan 2007, 19:20
Quote:
Marx wrote that Communists should always cooperate with any group that is behaving revolutionarily - that is threatening the ruling class. He wrote specifically that Communists in Germany work with the bourgeoisie when it acts in a revolutionary way,


Source please?

Quote:
today it is the German petty-bourgeoisie that is acting revolutionary


By petit-bourgeoisie you mean Nazi?

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Lenin recognized that the German Communists should work with the 'far right' against the Versailles Treaty.


Sounds uncharacteristic. Source please?

Quote:
Stalin continued this line


Ditto. Source please?
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"To know a thing you must study it." --Dagoth Ur
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Soviet cogitations: 829
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 28 Nov 2006, 20:19
Komsomol
Post 02 Jan 2007, 01:22
Quote:
Source please?

The Communist Manifesto.

In Germany, they fight with the bourgeoisie whenever it acts in a revolutionary way, against the absolute monarchy, the feudal squirearchy, and the petty-bourgeoisie.

But they never cease, for a single instant, to instill into the working class the clearest possible recognition of the hostile antagonism between bourgeoisie and proletariat, in order that the German workers may straightway use, as so many weapons against the bourgeoisie, the social and political conditions that the bourgeoisie must necessarily introduce along with its supremacy, and in order that, after the fall of the reactionary classes in Germany, the fight against the bourgeoisie itself may immediately begin.

The Communists turn their attention chiefly to Germany, because that country is on the eve of a bourgeois revolution that is bound to be carried out under more advanced conditions of European civilization and with a much more developed proletariat than that of England was in the seventeenth, and France in the eighteenth century, and because the bourgeois revolution in Germany will be but the prelude to an immediately following proletarian revolution.

In short, the Communists everywhere support every revolutionary movement against the existing social and political order of things.

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By petit-bourgeoisie you mean Nazi?

Yes.
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Sounds uncharacteristic. Source please?


It shouldn't given the Rapallo Treaty and Treaty of Berlin. Soviet Policy was from its inception seeking an alliance with the anti-Versailles faction of the German bourgeoisie against the West. The Versailles Treaty oppressed the German workers and bourgeoisie and gave them common cause (this is what allowed Nazism to rise). Until the native bourgeoisie was no longer oppressed there could be no proletarian revolution.

I took the time to find some internet sources:

http://www.marx2mao.com/Lenin/COPE19.html

The internal struggle among these predators is developing so swiftly that we may rejoice in the knowledge that the Treaty of Versailles is only a seeming victory for the jubilant imperialists, and that in reality it signifies the bankruptcy of the entire imperialist world and the resolute abandonment by the working people of those socialists who during the war allied themselves with the representatives of decaying imperialism and defended one of the groups of belligerent predators. The eyes of the working people have been opened because the Treaty of Versailles was a rapacious peace and showed that France and Britain had actually fought Germany in order to strengthen their rule over the colonies and to enhance their imperialist might.



http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/w ... ul/x03.htm

By means of the Treaty of Versailles, the war imposed such terms upon these countries that advanced peoples have been reduced to a state of colonial dependence, poverty, starvation, ruin, and loss of rights: this treaty binds them for many generations, placing them in conditions that no civilised nation has ever lived in.

...

The Treaty of Versailles has placed Germany and the other defeated countries in a position that makes their economic existence physically impossible, deprives them of all rights, and humiliates them.

...

These are the colonial and dependent countries whose inhabitants possess no legal rights, countries “mandated” to the brigands of finance. Besides, the enslavement of the defeated countries has been sanctioned by the Treaty of Versailles and by existing secret treaties regarding Russia, whose validity, it is true, is sometimes about as real as that of the scraps of paper stating that we owe so many thousands of millions.


http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/w ... pref02.htm


The Treaty of Brest-Litovsk dictated by monarchist Germany, and the subsequent much more brutal and despicable Treaty of Versailles dictated by the “democratic” republics of America and France and also by “free” Britain, have rendered a most useful service to humanity by exposing both imperialism’s hired coolies of the pen and petty-bourgeois reactionaries who, although they call themselves pacifists and socialists, sang praises to “Wilsonism”, and insisted that peace and reforms were possible under imperialism.

...

The tens of millions of dead and maimed left by the war—a war to decide whether the British or German group of financial plunderers is to receive the most booty—and those two “peace treaties”, are with unprecedented rapidity opening the eyes of the millions and tens of millions of people who are downtrodden, oppressed, deceived and duped by the bourgeoisie. Thus, out of the universal ruin caused by the war a world-wide revolutionary crisis is arising which, however prolonged and arduous its stages may be, cannot end otherwise than in a proletarian revolution and in its victory.

Quote:
Ditto. Source please?


http://www.marx2mao.com/Stalin/GPW46.html

So long as the Hitlerites were engaged in uniting Germany, which had been carved up by the Versailles Treaty, they could enjoy the support of the German people, who were inspired by the ideal or the restoration of Germany. But after this aim had been achieved and the Hitlerites took the road of imperialism, of seizing foreign lands and of subjugating foreign nations, thereby converting the peoples of Europe and the peoples of the U.S.S.R. into sworn enemies of present-day Germany, a profound change of heart took place among the German people against the continuation of the war, in favour of ending the war.
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Soviet cogitations: 2693
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 01 Mar 2006, 08:59
Party Bureaucrat
Post 02 Jan 2007, 08:05
It doesn't take a Nazi to see that the Treaty of Versailles was punitive and counterproductive.

I see absolutely nothing in these texts about blocking with or working with the Nazis in any fashion. Am I missing something?

I think you are radically misinterpreting these passages. That is just my $0.02.
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"To know a thing you must study it." --Dagoth Ur
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