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No such thing as ‘state capitalism’ in China

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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 21 Dec 2004, 23:53
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 30 Apr 2012, 15:04
Quote:
No such thing as ‘state capitalism’ in China
By Zhong Sheng (People's Daily)
15:19, April 28, 2012

Certain Western officials and scholars have repeatedly criticized China for implementing “state capitalism,” claiming that China encourages its state-owned enterprises (SOEs) to monopolize resources and stifle the growth of foreign investment. Based on what they believe to be unfair competition practices, they have called for restrictions on overseas investment by Chinese SOEs. However, their claim is totally untenable.

First, China is marching on the road of socialism with Chinese characteristics, instead of implementing “state capitalism.” The country adheres to the basic economic system with the public sector remaining dominant and diverse sectors of the economy developing side by side as it suits the country’s development level and serves the interests of the Chinese people.

The Chinese government has carried out the SOE reform, made efforts to solve the financing problems facing small and medium-sized enterprises, and encouraged and guided private investment in sectors not prohibited by laws. The country has gradually deepened various reforms, which have yielded positive results. The market economy is growing to maturity in China, where the relationship between state-owned and private companies will become more harmonious, and the people’s welfare will be further improved.

Second, China does not support domestic companies’ pursuit of oligopolistic interests, and treats foreign and domestic companies equally. More and more multinational corporations are willing to set up their regional headquarters as well as research and development centers in China because the Chinese government has long been committed to creating an open, transparent, and fair market and legal environment and to strengthening the protection of intellectual property rights. The increasing openness of the huge Chinese market has become the primary determinant of multinational corporations’ investment in the country.

In terms of foreign trade and cooperation, China does not deliberately pursue a trade surplus, and has made great efforts to increase imports, which has been unfortunately hindered by certain countries’ export controls. China has actively carried out cooperation with other countries in key areas such as nuclear power, high-speed railways, space exploration, and petrochemicals, while a number of private Chinese companies have been denied access to certain non-sensitive industries in certain “free countries” for no reason.

Criticizing China for implementing “state capitalism” and calling for restrictions on the overseas development of Chinese SOEs reflect that certain people are still reluctant to recognize the rapidly growing economic power of emerging markets and developing countries such as China.

While trying to hinder China’s development, they fail to realize that China is the main engine driving the world’s economic development, and has been contributing more than 20 percent to the world economic growth annually for quite a long time. The train of the world economy could not run fast without China. Their attempt to hinder China’s development by hyping up “state capitalism” does no one good, and is bound to fail.
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Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
Philosophized
Post 30 Apr 2012, 16:42
Lol. Just lol.
How aren't they ashamed of themselves for throwing this shit at people? Disgusting.
They're indeed correct that China isn't "state capitalist", it's a "regular capitalist country". Certainly has much less state involved than, say, Norway.

Quote:
The country adheres to the basic economic system with the public sector remaining dominant and diverse sectors of the economy developing side by side as it suits the country’s development level and serves the interests of the Chinese people.

That's not socialism.

Quote:
The Chinese government has carried out the SOE reform, made efforts to solve the financing problems facing small and medium-sized enterprises, and encouraged and guided private investment in sectors not prohibited by laws. The country has gradually deepened various reforms, which have yielded positive results. The market economy is growing to maturity in China, where the relationship between state-owned and private companies will become more harmonious, and the people’s welfare will be further improved.

You don't say?

Quote:
Second, China does not support domestic companies’ pursuit of oligopolistic interests, and treats foreign and domestic companies equally.

?
Of course they don't want to have foreigners move their sweatshops to Vietnam or somewhere.
Last edited by Loz on 30 Apr 2012, 23:07, edited 1 time in total.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 24 Jun 2011, 08:37
Party Bureaucrat
Post 30 Apr 2012, 22:53
As Loz says, if China today is not capitalist, what does that make Norway or Sweden?
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Jul 2006, 04:49
Ideology: Juche
Old Bolshevik
Post 01 May 2012, 23:05
Quote:
How aren't they ashamed of themselves for throwing this shit at people? Disgusting.


Bougeois politicians have no shame or guilt. They have all the power and money they need.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 13 Feb 2008, 15:25
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Post 02 May 2012, 08:41
There's a difference between how the CPC wants the Western world to classify China's economic system and how it does itself. Not to mention the factional differences of opinion. State Capitalism isn't a popular idea among Western capitalists, so of course the government wants to play down its intervention into the economy and owenership of enterprises. This is just propaganda aimed at the West, not a true representation of how the CPC actually views itself. There are plenty of Westerners dumb enough to think that China has fully embraced the free market.
Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
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Post 02 May 2012, 08:50
No country, except perhaps Somalia, has "fully embraced the free market".
This is just meaningless demagoguery.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 13 Feb 2008, 15:25
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Post 02 May 2012, 09:09
Stop trying to sound smart loz. You're not very good at it.

As far as many Westerners, and especially Americans are concerned, they have. This article is aimed at those people. It's just unfortunate that quite a few progressives swallow it as well. They should know better.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
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Post 02 May 2012, 09:15
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Stop trying to sound smart loz. You're not very good at it.

How am i trying to sound smart? I'm just stating the obvious facts, which BTW most people in this thread seem to agree with.

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As far as many Westerners, and especially Americans are concerned, they have.

As far as many Americans are concerned, Obama is a Communist.

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This article is aimed at those people.

So its wrong for Communists to comment on bullshit and false bourgeois propaganda?

Quote:
It's just unfortunate that quite a few progressives swallow it as well.

What are you aiming at? Better elaborate your point.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 13 Feb 2008, 15:25
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Post 02 May 2012, 14:22
You're entirely missing the point. This article is aimed at those idiots. It's not trying to reflect the truth, because the truth would damage China's relationship with the Western world and it isn't yet finished using the West to hasten its own development. To paraphrase what Stalin said, "The West will sell us the rope we will hang them with".
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 08 Nov 2007, 06:31
Embalmed
Post 02 May 2012, 14:35
This only reaffirms the idea the PSL is a bunch of brezhnevites/marcyites.
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Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
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Post 02 May 2012, 17:33
Quote:
This article is aimed at those idiots

And how you know this, pray tell? What idiots?

Quote:
It's not trying to reflect the truth, because the truth would damage China's relationship with the Western world and it isn't yet finished using the West to hasten its own development.

What exactly is this "truth"?

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To paraphrase what Stalin said, "The West will sell us the rope we will hang them with"

Stalin said that about all capitalists.
Indeed, those who will do the "hanging part" here are going to be the revolutionary Chinese masses and NOT the government of PRC or the "C" PC which is but a front for the Chinese bourgeoisie and various other reactionary cliques.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 09 May 2008, 14:59
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Post 02 May 2012, 18:41
Conscript wrote:
This only reaffirms the idea the PSL is a bunch of brezhnevites/marcyites.


This isn't from the PSL. This is from the People's Daily. As in, a PRC based news site.

Quote:
Stalin said that about all capitalists.


Lenin said that about all capitalists
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 17 Nov 2011, 12:25
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
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Post 02 May 2012, 21:31
runequester wrote:
As Loz says, if China today is not capitalist, what does that make Norway or Sweden?

Norway and Sweden are just capitalist countries which don't even claim to be socialist, but social-democratic. they have quite a bit bigger public sectors than most other capitalist countries but that's it. China on the other hand has its entire banking system, most of its heavy industry, and a majority of its economy overall under total state-ownership, a state under the control of an at least nominally Marxist-Leninist vanguard party. bit of a difference there
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
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Post 02 May 2012, 21:46
Quote:
they have quite a bit bigger public sectors than most other capitalist countries but that's it.

Yes and they also have a welfare system (and free/almost free) education and health care, which China doesn't.
Of course, no one here is claiming that these are socialist countries.

Quote:
they have quite a bit bigger public sectors than most other capitalist countries but that's it.

No, they have many things most other capitalist (and "socialist") countries don't. They are probably the best place for an average proletarian in the whole world.

Quote:
China on the other hand has its entire banking system, most of its heavy industry, and a majority of its economy overall under total state-ownership

There are private banks in China and there are sources which say that around 50% of its economy is in the "private sector".
But even if everything you said here was true, that still wouldn't be that relevant to proving that China is indeed a socialist country.
Because it obviously isn't.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 24 Jun 2011, 08:37
Party Bureaucrat
Post 02 May 2012, 23:16
deeman1916 wrote:
Norway and Sweden are just capitalist countries which don't even claim to be socialist, but social-democratic. they have quite a bit bigger public sectors than most other capitalist countries but that's it. China on the other hand has its entire banking system, most of its heavy industry, and a majority of its economy overall under total state-ownership, a state under the control of an at least nominally Marxist-Leninist vanguard party. bit of a difference there


"Nominally Marxist-Leninist" is a lot of comfort when you're working 60 hours a week at a Foxconn plant.

Social democracy was originally, at least in Sweden, seen as the road to socialism. That may have turned out not to be true, but Scandinavia is closer today than China is.


But let us ask some questions:

In which country do workers have the most democrat influence?

In which country do workers have the most rights?

In which country did the leadership sell out it's citizens to slave for multinational corporations, producing consumer gimmicks and electronic gadgets?
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 17 Nov 2011, 12:25
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Post 03 May 2012, 21:55
Loz wrote:
Yes and they also have a welfare system (and free/almost free) education and health care, which China doesn't.
Of course, no one here is claiming that these are socialist countries.

uh, China does have them as much as is possible right now, and is working to expand access to more of the population - http://www.time.com/time/world/article/ ... 06,00.html
Quote:
No, they have many things most other capitalist (and "socialist") countries don't. They are probably the best place for an average proletarian in the whole world.

the whole West European imperialist bloc has high standards of living even for average proletarians due to said imperialism. Scandinavia's economics mean that they have less of a wealth gap than other parts of Europe and as a result have less social problems, that's it. otherwise, Scandinavia's standard of living is by far due to imperialism
Quote:
There are private banks in China and there are sources which say that around 50% of its economy is in the "private sector".

the "Big Four" important banks of China are state-owned. the private sector makes up about 40% of the economy, and it should be noted that much of that aren't actual private-private enterprises but joint-stock enterprises in which the state holds majority stock in. but yeah, that is still far too much private capitalism and they should move away from that
Quote:
But even if everything you said here was true, that still wouldn't be that relevant to proving that China is indeed a socialist country.
Because it obviously isn't.

what do you consider to be socialism then?
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 24 Jun 2011, 08:37
Party Bureaucrat
Post 03 May 2012, 23:12
Because china's economic explosion in the last 20some years has nothing to do with filthy imperialist dollars of course.
Soviet America is Free America!

Under communism, there is no freedom; you are not free to live in poverty, be homeless, to be without an education, to starve, or to be without a job
Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Dec 2009, 23:17
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Post 04 May 2012, 02:34
Quote:
uh, China does have them as much as is possible right now, and is working to expand access to more of the population

Hah.
No, China isn't a welfare state and it won't become one any time soon.
Any future benefits for the Chinese working class will come, of course, through class warfare.

Quote:
the whole West European imperialist bloc has high standards of living even for average proletarians due to said imperialism. Scandinavia's economics mean that they have less of a wealth gap than other parts of Europe and as a result have less social problems, that's it. otherwise, Scandinavia's standard of living is by far due to imperialism

Sure, but imperialist superpowers of Europe (UK, Germany etc.) do not have such welfare systems.

Quote:
what do you consider to be socialism then?

Socialism is the transition to Communism. It's, so to speak, moving away from Capitalism, which China obviously isn't doing.
In fact it's obvious that China is rapidly becoming a imperialist superpower. See the new thread i made in this forum.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 03 Mar 2008, 02:36
Komsomol
Post 11 May 2012, 22:15
(
Quote:
"Nominally Marxist-Leninist" is a lot of comfort when you're working 60 hours a week at a Foxconn plant.


This.




Also, to all the pro-PRCers, could you clarify your position that (as I understand it) is that the CPC is pretending to the rest of the world that it is capitalist, while actually incubating socialist ideology within the party? That at some indeterminate point in the future they will release to the world? Just to clarify.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Sep 2006, 22:05
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Post 11 May 2012, 22:55
I think the leading argument is about a Left Faction getting control of the CCP and turning it back to the road of socialism. I don't see much hope of this short of a mass political revolution from the Chinese proletariat. However I thing having a CP running your government, even a CP such as the CCP, allows for communist theory to actually be found in state institutions and not [as*] suppressed as it is in the West.

---
* I'm not saying the PRC suppresses Marxist-Leninist ideas, at least I have no reason to believe they do, but I am not sure they're making Marxist theory as avaiable as they should.
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