Soviet-Empire.com U.S.S.R. and communism historical discussion.
[ Active ]
[ Login ]
Log-in to remove these advertisements.

Top 5 mistakes the Soviet Union made.

POST REPLY
Soviet cogitations: 1533
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Oct 2007, 15:55
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Party Member
Post 05 Sep 2008, 02:39
What were the top 5 mistakes that you felt the Soviet Union made that led to its collapse.
1. The Sino-Soviet split
2. Perestroika & Glasnost
3. Khrushchev's virgin lands campaign
4. Stalin allowing republics to declare their independence from the Soviet Union if desired.
5. The Soviet-Afghan War
We have beaten you to the moon, but you have beaten us in sausage making.- Nikita Khrushchev
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 271
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Feb 2008, 04:00
Ideology: Other Leftist
Komsomol
Post 05 Sep 2008, 03:21
Definitely agree on the Afghan war and virgin lands. Doubt #4 had any real effect on what went on in 1991. If this document had any power, the Baltics would have tried to use it earlier.
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 10461
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Aug 2006, 17:42
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
R.I.P.
Post 05 Sep 2008, 03:23
I'd have to add the fact that Stalin didn't have Khrushchev executed before he died Or had a successor groomed.
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 882
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 26 Oct 2004, 02:34
Komsomol
Post 05 Sep 2008, 06:59
Quote:
I'd have to add the fact that Stalin didn't have Khrushchev executed before he died Or had a successor groomed.


Was Kruschev really bad enough to warrant his ascent to power being one of the worst mistakes in Soviet history?
"Unpolitisch sein heißt: politisch sein, ohne es zu merken." - Rosa Luxemburg
Image
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 301
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 04 Jun 2008, 21:19
Komsomol
Post 05 Sep 2008, 09:37
Quote:
Was Kruschev really bad enough to warrant his ascent to power being one of the worst mistakes in Soviet history?

I don't think so. He is more of a symbol for the Soviet failure. But some of his actions weren't that bad, agricultural reform, minimum wage, the introduction of regional economical soviets, Warsaw Pact, start of the space race.
The real mistake was not to spread Marxist doctrine fast enough throughout the world and maybe bureaucracy and the nomenklatura.
Image

Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste.
[+-]
Soviet cogitations: 8108
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 26 Jun 2006, 02:51
Embalmed
Post 05 Sep 2008, 12:51
Quote:
4. Stalin allowing republics to declare their independence from the Soviet Union if desired.


That brings up an interesting question from my perspective... Lenin tells us that the point of giving their nations their independence, including their freedom to succeed, is so that nations can be drawn closer together. Does that mean at some point it becomes appropriate to take this right away, as nations are drawn closer together? If it does, when is that point?
Soviet cogitations: 1533
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Oct 2007, 15:55
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Party Member
Post 05 Sep 2008, 16:12
I was expecting you guys to make your own lists. I feel that allowing Soviet states to declare their independence heightens nationalism and produces an anti-government feeling when their people aren't the majority of people running the government.
We have beaten you to the moon, but you have beaten us in sausage making.- Nikita Khrushchev
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 4953
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 13 Feb 2008, 15:25
Ideology: Other Leftist
Politburo
Post 05 Sep 2008, 16:26
I'll make one up.

1. Glasnost.
2. Perestroika.
3. The Gen Sec. alone having too much power (which is what allowed the above to be implemented).
4. Corruption being permitted to get out of hand during the Brezhnev era.
5. Stalin permitting the Allies to control part of Berlin after Western Germany unified under one banner (which I'm not sure he could have prevented).
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 231
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 26 May 2008, 04:27
Pioneer
Post 05 Sep 2008, 16:43
Fellow Comrade wrote:
1. Glasnost.
2. Perestroika.
3. The Gen Sec. alone having too much power (which is what allowed the above to be implemented).

4. Not having the Comintern take a harder stance on fascism earlier.
5. The Soviet-Afghan war
"Neither Maoist, nor internationalist, nor a movement" - heiss93 on the MIM
Image
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 4953
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 13 Feb 2008, 15:25
Ideology: Other Leftist
Politburo
Post 05 Sep 2008, 16:46
Quote:
The Soviet-Afghan War.


Why is this a mistake? The mistake was leaving before the the Afghans could manage the domestic situation themselves.
Soviet cogitations: 1533
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Oct 2007, 15:55
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Party Member
Post 05 Sep 2008, 17:06
Quote:
Why is this a mistake? The mistake was leaving before the the Afghans could manage the domestic situation themselves.

The USSR wasn't planning to invade Afghanistan, but Afghanistan insisted on Soviet support. Thus the rise of the Mujajideen and funding from Pakistan and other countries. As long as there was a Soviet presence there will also be a well funded Mujajideen.
We have beaten you to the moon, but you have beaten us in sausage making.- Nikita Khrushchev
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 4953
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 13 Feb 2008, 15:25
Ideology: Other Leftist
Politburo
Post 05 Sep 2008, 17:15
That's true, however, you could be sure that the Mujajideen would have eventually got foreign support with or without Soviet help. It's possible the Soviets could have provided effective aid to the afghans without directly intervening militarily, but that's hard to judge.
[+-]
Soviet cogitations: 8108
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 26 Jun 2006, 02:51
Embalmed
Post 05 Sep 2008, 17:29
Quote:
I was expecting you guys to make your own lists. I feel that allowing Soviet states to declare their independence heightens nationalism and produces an anti-government feeling when their people aren't the majority of people running the government.


I think it grew out of the political and economic policies implemented after Stalin's death. I don't know if they really restored capitalism, but there's a definite shift there. I also think that part of the reason capitalism is restored so easily has to do with the traditional Leninist political structure, which lead to the change in policies. I don't know that it's really just as simple as giving the General Secretary less power, but we need to work on improving the structure.

So I can't really give you a list of points; one thing leads to another.
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 6211
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 04 Aug 2004, 20:49
Ideology: Democratic Socialism
Embalmed
Post 05 Sep 2008, 18:25
#1 - Not killing Solzhenitsyn themselves.
#2 - Socialist realism as a destroyer of the avant garde.
#3 - 1960s Economic Reforms.
#4 - Stalin's general Thermidor.
#5 - A weak Comintern.
Image

"Phil Spector is haunting Europe" -Dr. Karl H. Marx
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 10461
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 19 Aug 2006, 17:42
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
R.I.P.
Post 05 Sep 2008, 20:40
Quote:
Was Kruschev really bad enough to warrant his ascent to power being one of the worst mistakes in Soviet history?


In my opinion, yes. and since this is a top five based on ones opinion, I have a right to feel that way...

Sniff. cough. click, light, blow smoke, turn, walk away.
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 271
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 06 Feb 2008, 04:00
Ideology: Other Leftist
Komsomol
Post 06 Sep 2008, 03:12
To those of you saying "glastnost" c'mon! Silly and draconian censorship of the arts and music could have only facilitated faster collapse of the USSR.
Last edited by Emil_G on 06 Sep 2008, 03:13, edited 1 time in total.
Soviet cogitations: 10005
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
Ideology: Trotskyism
Philosophized
Post 06 Sep 2008, 03:12
1. The Sino-Soviet split
2. Glasnost
3. Perestroika
4. De-Stalinization
5. Inability to react to economic stagnation during the 70s.
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 4953
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 13 Feb 2008, 15:25
Ideology: Other Leftist
Politburo
Post 06 Sep 2008, 06:42
Quote:
To those of you saying "glastnost" c'mon! Silly and draconian censorship of the arts and music could have only facilitated faster collapse of the USSR.


Glasnost was much more than a loosening of censorship laws IIRC. If that was all it was, this thread probably wouldn't be asking for the top five mistakes that led to the collapse, it would simply be asking for mistakes.
User avatar
Soviet cogitations: 63
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 28 Aug 2008, 03:01
Pioneer
Post 06 Sep 2008, 21:14
1. Sino-Soviet split.
2. Perestroika.
3. Glasnost.
4. De-Stalinization.
5. Failing the coup against Gorbachev.
"Pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will."-Antonio Gramsci
Soviet cogitations: 3448
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 26 Jun 2006, 15:59
Ideology: Other Leftist
Party Bureaucrat
Post 06 Sep 2008, 21:52
Quote:
4. De-Stalinization.


I have to disagree with this. Stalin's institutional distortions to real Soviet power needed to be ended. The problem was the way Kruschev and his clique used De-Stalinisation as an excuse to push through economic-liberalisation from which it never recovered.

My List:

1. Sino-Soviet Split (although neither side is innocent here)
2. Perestroika
3. Disinvolvement of the grass-roots and the elimination of Democracy under Stalin
4. Continuing the "Respectable" foreign policy post WW2 (especially after it gained nuclear defences, they didn't have an all out capitalist invasion to worry about anymore).
5. Self-Finance model of economic planning (which is in reality just a psuedo-planned economy), which didn't conquer any of the problems of market forces yet suffered from the faults of bureaucracy and inefficiency. By far one of the most important, yet most underlooked causes of the gradual economic stagnation.

No particular order. (If I could add a sixth it would probably be Afgahnistan)
The moment one accepts the notion of 'totalitarianism', one is firmly locked within the liberal-democratic horizon. - Slavoj Žižek
Alternative Display:
Mobile view
More Forums: The History Forum. The UK Politics Forum.
© 2000- Soviet-Empire.com. Privacy.