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A few space AUs.

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Soviet cogitations: 3711
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Jul 2006, 04:49
Ideology: Juche
Old Bolshevik
Post 05 Aug 2009, 22:33
I've always wondered what would have happened if:

1. Venus and Mars had conditions almost identical to Earth's.
2. If the Apollo programme had continued on, instead of being cancelled.
Soviet cogitations: 10005
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
Ideology: Trotskyism
Philosophized
Post 05 Aug 2009, 23:25
1. There would be lifeforms similar to humanson Venus and Mars and we'd probably be in contact with each other.

2. I'd rather see a Soviet man on moon.
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
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Soviet cogitations: 14444
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Sep 2006, 22:05
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 05 Aug 2009, 23:39
Quote:
1. Venus and Mars had conditions almost identical to Earth's.


Maybe life would have formed maybe not. At the very least we would have two planets ripe for colonization. Also there is significant evidence that Mars could be terraformed into something approaching an Earth-like atmosphere/climate.

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2. If the Apollo programme had continued on, instead of being cancelled.


Hopefully more exploration of the moon or possible stations would have been set up. But this is more fantasy than fact probably.

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1. There would be lifeforms similar to humanson Venus and Mars and we'd probably be in contact with each other.


The life on these planets would be as different from us as they would on a planet a billion light-year away. And there is no reason to believe that intelligent life (of the order of sentience) would evolve on either planet, let alone that we would be able or willing to communicate. I mean look at the way we treat our own species. I've always held that it was probably best that no other hominid survived long enough to really cohabitate with us. We'd persecute the shit out of them.

Also there is the possibility that not only would communism be an inefficient system for these cousins/aliens but that they might be hostile to the notion altogether. As far as we know Marxism is only applicable to homosapians. But that's more of an aside I guess.

Quote:
2. I'd rather see a Soviet man on moon.


Who gives a shit where a man is from? Any man in space is progress. Whether he be soviet, american, chinese, or moroccan.
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Soviet cogitations: 10005
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
Ideology: Trotskyism
Philosophized
Post 05 Aug 2009, 23:53
Quote:
Also there is significant evidence that Mars could be terraformed into something approaching an Earth-like atmosphere/climate.


I hate how everybody loves terraforming. Terraforming, if even possible, would take literally thousands of years. Why should we wait that long? Paraterraforming is much more viable.

Quote:
The life on these planets would be as different from us as they would on a planet a billion light-year away. And there is no reason to believe that intelligent life (of the order of sentience) would evolve on either planet, let alone that we would be able or willing to communicate.


Of course we'd be able to communicate with them. Even if they had no space technology, we'd discovered them by the time that the Viking missions sent us pictures from Mars.

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I've always held that it was probably best that no other hominid survived long enough to really cohabitate with us. We'd persecute the shit out of them.


Maybe that's how they went extinct, duh.

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Also there is the possibility that not only would communism be an inefficient system for these cousins/aliens but that they might be hostile to the notion altogether. As far as we know Marxism is only applicable to homosapians. But that's more of an aside I guess.


Dialectical Materialism applies to the whole of nature. And I guess the basic tenets of Scientific Socialism apply to any class society, and it's very probable that wherever there is a society of intelligent beings, there are classes (unless they've never left/already reached communism).

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Who gives a shit where a man is from? Any man in space is progress. Whether he be soviet, american, chinese, or moroccan.


Actually no. The US would probably commercialize the whole issue in a horrible way.
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Sep 2006, 22:05
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Philosophized
Post 06 Aug 2009, 00:22
Quote:
Of course we'd be able to communicate with them. Even if they had no space technology, we'd discovered them by the time that the Viking missions sent us pictures from Mars.


And in what way does this imply they would be able to communicate with us? Sure we have the technology but there's no reason to believe they'd even be smart enough to make interplanetary communication. Hell we're just barely getting to the point where it doesn't take a ridiculous amount of time to transmit over such a distance.

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Maybe that's how they went extinct, duh.


That only applies to the Neanderthal and even so that's a somewhat fallacious theory. Its much more likely we bred/killed them out of existence.

Quote:
Dialectical Materialism applies to the whole of nature. And I guess the basic tenets of Scientific Socialism apply to any class society, and it's very probable that wherever there is a society of intelligent beings, there are classes (unless they've never left/already reached communism).


This is an entirely unscientific claim. Diamat only applies to earth (as it stands) because only earth/human society is what we have to draw on. And there is absolutely no reason to believe that alien society would even be understandable by us. Who says that alien society would ever develop classes? You? On what evidence do you base this?

Now I'm not saying that there won't be certain other species that communism may apply to but as far as we know only humans can operate under such a system.

Quote:
Actually no. The US would probably commercialize the whole issue in a horrible way.


Who gives a shit? Space travel is space travel. Anything that progresses it is inherently, well, progressive. I'd love to see commercial space liners even though obviously communally owned ones are superior.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 27 Oct 2006, 23:10
Politburo
Post 06 Aug 2009, 01:44
Quote:
I hate how everybody loves terraforming. Terraforming, if even possible, would take literally thousands of years. Why should we wait that long? Paraterraforming is much more viable.


Doesnt it just depend on how much effort we put into it? And besides, 100 years from now, producivity will be much higher; growth is exponential.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 13 Feb 2008, 15:25
Ideology: Other Leftist
Politburo
Post 06 Aug 2009, 01:51
In real life, the Soviet's had plans to put people on Mars before the Americans. The only reason they didn't make it to the moon first is that they wanted the technology used to be safe and able to be expanded from for further missions. The tech which went into the Apollo missions was very unsafe and would never be considered acceptable for use today. The U.S. was interested in getting to the moon ASAP, and safety took a back seat. Apollo 13 or worse could easily have happened to 11.

Basically, the Soviets and the Americans had two different approaches to their space programmes: The Soviet turtle versus the American hare. While the Americans scrapped Apollo, the Soviet's kept expanding on their technology. Soviet achievements such as Mir are an example of this. I've been meaning a post a chapter from a book I have which talks about this, but haven't got around to it yet.

I'd also like to point that contrary to what you might be thinking by their approach, Soviet scientists were very daring with their ideas. A very long term Soviet plan was to be able to control the course of the Sun around the Galaxy.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 14 Jul 2008, 20:01
Ideology: Trotskyism
Philosophized
Post 06 Aug 2009, 02:18
Quote:
And in what way does this imply they would be able to communicate with us? Sure we have the technology but there's no reason to believe they'd even be smart enough to make interplanetary communication. Hell we're just barely getting to the point where it doesn't take a ridiculous amount of time to transmit over such a distance.


Point taken, but if the Viking missions had discovered life over there, we'd have probably already sent a manned mission to Mars.

Quote:
This is an entirely unscientific claim. Diamat only applies to earth (as it stands) because only earth/human society is what we have to draw on.


Sorry, but if you put it like this it doesn't sound like you even know what you're talking about. Diamat concerns itself with the dialectical movement of matter, with change in and of itself, with the conflict of opposites and with the negation of the negation. It's actually impossible to confine this to earth, so... wtf?

Quote:
Who says that alien society would ever develop classes? You? On what evidence do you base this?


How did classes develop in human society? The productive forces reached a level that made it possible for a certain group of people to have others work for them. Are you saying you can't imagine such a situation in an alien society? Hell even animals have classes. (Bees, ants, apes)
"Don't know why i'm still surprised with this shit anyway." - Loz
Soviet cogitations: 1533
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 10 Oct 2007, 15:55
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Party Member
Post 06 Aug 2009, 03:00
Under Reagan: Star Wars
Pre Reagan: Science
We have beaten you to the moon, but you have beaten us in sausage making.- Nikita Khrushchev
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Oct 2004, 22:04
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Resident Soviet
Post 06 Aug 2009, 21:47
I believe 'where the man is from' is important only from the perspective of the goals of the capitalist and socialist systems. In the former, absent competition from another space superpower developments have been slowing down because the profitability of space exploration and colonization is thus far not significant enough. In the latter, development would continue steadily because the advancement of humanity, not profit, is the main goal. It is my sincere hope that in a future world where socialism has proven itself to be the superior system humanity can put much more effort into space, and we will thus be able to fly to other planets, and eventually other solar systems, thus securing our survival as a species over the long term.
"The thing about capitalism is that it sounds awful on paper and is horrendous in practice. Communism sounds wonderful on paper and when it was put into practice it was done pretty well for what they had to work with." -MiG
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Soviet cogitations: 3711
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 07 Jul 2006, 04:49
Ideology: Juche
Old Bolshevik
Post 07 Aug 2009, 05:54
Quote:
A very long term Soviet plan was to be able to control the course of the Sun around the Galaxy.


Ah! Source, please.

Quote:
Apollo 13 or worse could easily have happened to 11.


They even wrote a speech in case Apollo 11 got stuck on the moon.
Last edited by Misuzu on 07 Aug 2009, 06:12, edited 1 time in total.
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Soviet cogitations: 4953
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 13 Feb 2008, 15:25
Ideology: Other Leftist
Politburo
Post 07 Aug 2009, 06:04
It's in a book I have (The Soviet Manned Space Programme by Phillip Clark). I will post up the chapter which mentions that soon.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 31 Aug 2009, 07:21
Komsomol
Post 01 Sep 2009, 05:47
This article looks very encouraging, but I'm sure that most have you have already seen it, as it's six weeks old by now.


I would have thought that Siberia or Antartica would be ideal places, to simulate a manned Mars mission.

Link:http://tvnz.co.nz/technology-news/simulated-mars-mission-ends-after-105-days-2847983
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Soviet cogitations: 4953
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 13 Feb 2008, 15:25
Ideology: Other Leftist
Politburo
Post 01 Sep 2009, 06:54
Mars only has snow and ice in any appreciable amount at the poles. he first manned mission will certainly land elsewhere on the planet.
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Soviet cogitations: 4953
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 13 Feb 2008, 15:25
Ideology: Other Leftist
Politburo
Post 03 Dec 2009, 23:50
Quote:
It's in a book I have (The Soviet Manned Space Programme by Phillip Clark). I will post up the chapter which mentions that soon.


I haven't forgotten about this, but have been busy until recently. I expect to have it posted sometime in the next two weeks depending on how long it takes me to type up the chapter.
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Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 20 Jul 2007, 06:59
Ideology: Marxism-Leninism
Forum Commissar
Post 28 Dec 2009, 08:25
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Aelita had Marxism spreading to Mars, this was parodied in "interplanetary revolution"

There's also a novel called "Red Star" that deals with extraterrestial Marxism.

I know it's fiction, but it's worth mentioning.
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Soviet cogitations: 542
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 31 Aug 2009, 07:21
Komsomol
Post 30 Dec 2009, 09:37
This bit of information will definitely be of interest to many of you. It certainly is to me.
Quote:
50 Years of the First Human Space Mission to be Celebrated on April 12, 2011

2011 is marked by an outstanding date in the history of the mankind. 50years of the first human space mission will be celebrated this year. This space flight made by Russian Yury Gagarin took place on April 12, 1961.

Web-site of the Russian Federal Space Agency opens a new section to publish materials devoted to Yury Gagarin himself, and anything linked with the birth of the human space exploration era.

Complete Article:http://www.federalspace.ru/main.php?id=86
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Soviet cogitations: 3765
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 11 Nov 2009, 07:13
Ideology: Other Leftist
Politburo
Post 09 Jan 2010, 06:57
Mars is two small to hold a magnetic force strong enough to have a thick enough atmosphere for life, so Mars would have to be bigger, which would throw off the "Goldielocks" zone that the Earth is in now.
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